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FT: Frame (Twin) Early Rapide research - 1947


craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
M030
According to the B Rapide in the dining room, for the winter, There is a FT237 on each side of the downward tab on the Brampton set.


 
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Somer

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Now that I've had a better look at a larger picture the clutch cover looks to be fully circular so correct C28 fitted. :)
Correct. You would also have to change the primary cover due to the different bolt pattern.
 
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deejay499

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
If it is #5, it made its way to Argentina for Alex Noftsger to buy a few decades later. Any good rumors on who bought it from Alex's estate?
Scan_20180119 (3).png
Here are a couple of photos of Alex's bike.
If it is not OK to put the numbers photo on here, please delete it. Thanks.
Nos deleted by me.
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I saw this A/B Miller head lamp on Ebay and wondered if the switch ammeter were correct.
I numbered some items for explanation.
I have never seen a flat copper, exposed connection (1) before.
What is the purpose of (2) rheostat? resistor?
what is the purpose of (3) big flat copper tab?

miller7interior.jpg
 

vin998

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VOC Forum Moderator
Thats a pre war headlight. My series A Comet has that type of switch with the resistor. No voltage regulator was fitted. When the switch is in the off position the dynamo is disconnected from the battery. When you switched to "charge" the battery was connected to the dynamo through the resistor to limit the charge rate. Switch the headlight on and the resistor is bypassed and you get higher charge rate. The same basic switch was used on series B & C but without the resistor etc fitted. That's why you get a 4 position switch and on series B & C's the charge position appears to do nothing.
 

craig

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VOC Member
Thank you, I now understand the resistor, but I still wonder about the big copper paddle (3).
Here is the reflector back side. Does something rub on this (3) paddle?
Seems to be in the area of the wire clip slotted bracket.....or maybe the reflector bowl itself?
Thank you.
miller6.jpg
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
If you look at the reflector there is a small slotted hole above the spring clip assembly, when the headlight is on some of the light shines through that hole and lights up the white case of the ammeter. Perhaps that small paddle helps to deflect a bit more light. These and other usually small items on these bikes get lost over the years, so it is nice to see some of these original parts.
 

Marcus Bowden

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VOC Member
Craig my handsome, at the top you have the banana slot as Greg mentions then the clip, terminals for lamp contacts, then insulated bus bars with sockets rolled into each end for the dip & mainbeam wires to be threaded through rolled bullets and turned back on themselves the lower paddle as you seem to be calling it is the same thing but for the ground terminal. Lovely type of terminal as no soldering require (simplicity it's self). Road side maintenance made easy.
I got my reflector re silver plated in H.M.D. Devonport whilst serving my time as a fitter/turner then changed to 12V so it's in a box now but the light was very good and much whiter after plating.
bananaman.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have been reading my early Riders Handbook and taking notice of some of the changed details throughout the handbook from the more common later editions.
Here is the text in the electrical equipment I would like help with please.
Where is this "Miller" Instruction book?
At what build was the dip moved to the left?
At what build was the stop light switch wire moved from the battery+?


ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT-LIGHTING SYSTEM
Lighting System

This is quite independent of the ignition circuit, so that, if required, the dynamo can be either disconnected or removed when entering sporting events. The 6-volt, 50-watt dynamo is voltage controlled by an external regulator, whose function is to limit the generator output to avoid overcharging the battery on long runs and to permit the dynamo to charge at maximum rate should the battery be flat. Consequently, the ammeter which is situated on the headlamp is likely to show somewhat inconsistent readings, as these depend more on the state of the battery than anything else. With a fully-charged battery the ammeter should read between 2 amps. and 4 amps. charge, but this may rise to 8 amps if the battery is flat. Although there is an "Off" position shown on the switch, this is actually inoperative, and the ammeter will still show "Charge". For more detailed information and wiring diagram see "Miller" Instruction Book.
The headlamp switch controls the taillight, speedo light, pilot bulb and the twin-filament main bulb. The main beam is dipped or raised by the dipper switch on handlebars, which is normally fitted on the right, but can be changed over if desired. The tail light wire is fitted with a screwed connector covered,with a rubber sheath, adjacent to the battery to facilitate disconnection when removing the upper frame member.
The horn and stop-light circuits are separate from the main circuit, and their current consumption does not register on the ammeter. The positive horn lead goes from the battery + terminal direct to the horn, from which an earth wire runs to the push button on bars; this earth wire is fitted with a connector of a different pattern from the tail light wire to obviate incorrect coupling-up, which would shortcircuit the battery to earth.
The stop-light wire in early models is also connected to the battery + terminal, but later was taken off the + horn terminal. In either case the wire then goes to the stop-light switch and thence to the stop light. The stop light should be set by moving the spring anchorage along the brake rod so that the light comes on slightly before the brakes do. Occasionally it may be necessary to swivel the anchorage round the rod, as the angle at which the spring is pulling affects the action of the switch contacts.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Research has found that the #3 flat copper paddle is designed to power the center terminal of a small parking bulb, not used on a "B" Rapide Miller headlamp. This copper paddle becomes "hot" when the switch is selected to "L". Seems to be a pre war design....might be used on a "A" Rapide?

I saw this A/B Miller head lamp on Ebay and wondered if the switch ammeter were correct.
I numbered some items for explanation.
I have never seen a flat copper, exposed connection (1) before.
What is the purpose of (2) rheostat? resistor?
what is the purpose of (3) big flat copper tab?

View attachment 19692
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Research has found that the #3 flat copper paddle is designed to power the center terminal of a small parking bulb, not used on a "B" Rapide Miller headlamp. This copper paddle becomes "hot" when the switch is selected to "L". Seems to be a pre war design....might be used on a "A" Rapide?
All the series A Rapide's had fully Lucas electrics including Lucas switches magneto and lights. The series A Comets and Meteors used BTH electrics inc BTH lights & Magneto up to late 1935 and then switched to a Miller electrical gear and lights. There was a few in early 1937 that used a combination of BTH magneto and Miller lights & switches.
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
I have been reading my early Riders Handbook and taking notice of some of the changed details throughout the handbook from the more common later editions.
Here is the text in the electrical equipment I would like help with please.
Where is this "Miller" Instruction book?
At what build was the dip moved to the left?
At what build was the stop light switch wire moved from the battery+?


ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT-LIGHTING SYSTEM
Lighting System

This is quite independent of the ignition circuit, so that, if required, the dynamo can be either disconnected or removed when entering sporting events. The 6-volt, 50-watt dynamo is voltage controlled by an external regulator, whose function is to limit the generator output to avoid overcharging the battery on long runs and to permit the dynamo to charge at maximum rate should the battery be flat. Consequently, the ammeter which is situated on the headlamp is likely to show somewhat inconsistent readings, as these depend more on the state of the battery than anything else. With a fully-charged battery the ammeter should read between 2 amps. and 4 amps. charge, but this may rise to 8 amps if the battery is flat. Although there is an "Off" position shown on the switch, this is actually inoperative, and the ammeter will still show "Charge". For more detailed information and wiring diagram see "Miller" Instruction Book.
The headlamp switch controls the taillight, speedo light, pilot bulb and the twin-filament main bulb. The main beam is dipped or raised by the dipper switch on handlebars, which is normally fitted on the right, but can be changed over if desired. The tail light wire is fitted with a screwed connector covered,with a rubber sheath, adjacent to the battery to facilitate disconnection when removing the upper frame member.
The horn and stop-light circuits are separate from the main circuit, and their current consumption does not register on the ammeter. The positive horn lead goes from the battery + terminal direct to the horn, from which an earth wire runs to the push button on bars; this earth wire is fitted with a connector of a different pattern from the tail light wire to obviate incorrect coupling-up, which would shortcircuit the battery to earth.
The stop-light wire in early models is also connected to the battery + terminal, but later was taken off the + horn terminal. In either case the wire then goes to the stop-light switch and thence to the stop light. The stop light should be set by moving the spring anchorage along the brake rod so that the light comes on slightly before the brakes do. Occasionally it may be necessary to swivel the anchorage round the rod, as the angle at which the spring is pulling affects the action of the switch contacts.
I have either read somewhere or been told sometime in the past that the early series B factory handbook & instruction sheets were written before the prototype series B was built. So don't assume the early handbook is correct.
 

craig

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VOC Member
I have either read somewhere or been told sometime in the past that the early series B factory handbook & instruction sheets were written before the prototype series B was built. So don't assume the early handbook is correct.
The riders handbook I am referencing/researching/quoting discusses the replacement of 3 1/2" dynamo with 3" dynamo....so probably issued mid/late 1948?
 

stevee

Active Website User
VOC Member
Where is this "Miller" Instruction book?
". For more detailed information and wiring diagram see "Miller" Instruction Book.

Have you tried the:
Miller Maintenance and Instruction Manual 1939
Miller Spare parts List 1939
Miller 1954 Spare Parts List etc.?
They are all Bruce-Main Smith & Co productions available from the National Motorcycle Museum http://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum...uce-main-smith-bms-motorcycle-manuals/miller/
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks Stevee, I have two of those books, plus it seems maybe a dozen other Miller manuals, but I looked over National Motorcycle Museum list and decided I needed even more.

Have you ever run across a reference to Vincent Miller equipment and the Miller wire diagram for Vincent was listed as 1001?
Here is a 1001 from my 1937/8 Miller booklet.
Is there an up dated version issued at a later date?
WireHarness1935-1001.jpg
 

vin998

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Craig
That's an interesting wiring diagram as series A's with Miller mag/dyno were the 3 brush type which didn't use a regulator. Vincent Motor Cycles by Paul Richardson on pg 169-170 says as such, except he also says that two brush dynamos with a regulator were sometimes fitted to special order. I have never come across such a setup on a series A.
The Miller diagram 1001 is dated October 1935. Vincent were still using BTH mag-dyno's then so the diagram may have been intended initially for a different customer.

Simon
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Here is my reference to 1001 from a 1961 Miller catalog.
Yes, it seems to me to have been a generic wire dwg.
I cant find another Vincent specific parts listing by Miller.
This list is updated with 38ET, 43E......, but S77 is incorrect.

I cant find documents on 78E or 84ECV, (ref 1001) I would like to see Miller listing of either.
I have 84CV. documents.


Miller1961edit1.jpg
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I found another period photo of a Feridax windscreen.
theracingvincent website.
Looks to be Comet and sidecar.

I realize this windscreen may not be a beauty addition to a Vincent, but it is very practical.
My question is --- is this the Vincent factory optional windscreen?

 

Somer

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I don't think they were exclusively Vincent. I've seen them on other bikes of the period.
 

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