I don't get it. When I was young there was much else to do besides tinker with machines, now not so much. Going out to the barn now to fit the G91/1.
Ron
V3 clutch drag
- Thread starter Oldhaven
- Start date
I don't get it. When I was young there was much else to do besides tinker with machines, now not so much. Going out to the barn now to fit the G91/1.
Ron
Thanks, I didn't know that. I'll look for a set this winter, since I have generic modern types.
Well, the results from today's work:
With the old G91/1, adjusting for best travel, .053 - .054" lift measured at the V3 center button (depending on how I released the bar lever, slowly or fast)
With new style G91/1, readjusted for best travel, .058 -.059"
After putting a slight bend away from the bar in the bar hand lever to allow slightly more travel before bottoming on grip, readjusted, .062-.063"
I already had the mod adjuster in the cover, so that is a constant. The new G91/1 hits it at its very edge and I don't think it can be any bigger in diameter. The plates are still lifting squarely.
From this anecdotal experience, the new g91/1 seems to have improved things by 9-10%, and getting the bar lever to travel farther, another 8-9% for a total 0f .009-.010" more lift. This is probably significant. I adjusted the G91/1 to just kiss the cable abutment at end of hand travel, with no cold play, as Greg suggested. This left some available space for more travel with slack cable, but it is just not available in the system, and the only way I can see to improve that would be to get more at the pivot centers in the clutch hand lever and increase cable stiffness. I wonder what other bikes with this clutch pack or similar are seeing for lift. This 1/16th" should be plenty. I had to relieve the new G91 at the bottom where it fits in the cover slot as it had a machining ridge that made it stiff, but saw no need to remove any other material since it would not have made any difference in increasing travel as it did not use all the available space.
Weather looks clear but cold here tomorrow, so I will probably try a short end of season run to try it out. I will then pull the cable and send it off as a pattern for a linear wound one that should compress less, since it looks like extra bar lever travel and the least possible cable compression may have as much or more beneficial effect as the new parts at the other end. I don't have any fluid in the clutch right now and will probably run it dry next season, filling it for a short run to get it wet, then draining it for the rest of the year or until something changes or feels different.
Ron
With the old G91/1, adjusting for best travel, .053 - .054" lift measured at the V3 center button (depending on how I released the bar lever, slowly or fast)
With new style G91/1, readjusted for best travel, .058 -.059"
After putting a slight bend away from the bar in the bar hand lever to allow slightly more travel before bottoming on grip, readjusted, .062-.063"
I already had the mod adjuster in the cover, so that is a constant. The new G91/1 hits it at its very edge and I don't think it can be any bigger in diameter. The plates are still lifting squarely.
From this anecdotal experience, the new g91/1 seems to have improved things by 9-10%, and getting the bar lever to travel farther, another 8-9% for a total 0f .009-.010" more lift. This is probably significant. I adjusted the G91/1 to just kiss the cable abutment at end of hand travel, with no cold play, as Greg suggested. This left some available space for more travel with slack cable, but it is just not available in the system, and the only way I can see to improve that would be to get more at the pivot centers in the clutch hand lever and increase cable stiffness. I wonder what other bikes with this clutch pack or similar are seeing for lift. This 1/16th" should be plenty. I had to relieve the new G91 at the bottom where it fits in the cover slot as it had a machining ridge that made it stiff, but saw no need to remove any other material since it would not have made any difference in increasing travel as it did not use all the available space.
Weather looks clear but cold here tomorrow, so I will probably try a short end of season run to try it out. I will then pull the cable and send it off as a pattern for a linear wound one that should compress less, since it looks like extra bar lever travel and the least possible cable compression may have as much or more beneficial effect as the new parts at the other end. I don't have any fluid in the clutch right now and will probably run it dry next season, filling it for a short run to get it wet, then draining it for the rest of the year or until something changes or feels different.
Ron
I think heat is as big factor, If poss' get the thing in neutrel quick as you can, I fitted a long alloy indicator so I could reach down and move it by hand. I think the heat alters the spring pressure, Not the same for all the springs, Then the plate goes unbalanced and the clutch gets even hotter, Any chance of fitting some spacers under the alloy clutch cover, To keep it a bit cool. I find it strange that there is traffic where you live !!, You can't trust the T.V. !. Cheers Bill.
Ron just as a final suggestion, just be careful running the clutch dry if it was meant to be run wet, as the plates can get hot quickly and drag. You can wipe the plates with an oil soaked rag and assemble, and this will work well enough. All of these ideas I am suggesting from previous experience with these V3 clutches on several bikes. The travel of the G 91 at the top should equal what you are getting from the bar lever, if not then your outer cable is indeed compressing. Did you get around to modifying the ears on the friction plates.......? This will definitely help the plates free off, done that mod on all the ones I have worked on, cheers................Greg.
No!
I do not know why the book says adjust to touch the abutment. Careless cable adjustment will then result in the claw binding on the abutment and the next thing you know you have pulled off the nipple! Ask Vince Lonsdale! I set it up with the claw just clear of the edge of the hole before I fit the cable.
I put the bike away for the winter today after a short run. The clutch is behaving itself nicely, at least for the few miles I did. I ran it without oil in the housing, but the plates were quite wet from the summer it ran in oil. Here is a condensed version of the instructions V3 version 2.01 for the clutch plates:
"The V3 clutch is designed to be run in oil and to be maintenance free.......However....the V3 clutch can be run dry like the Vincent unit. The disadvantage of this is that periodic maintenance at 3000 km intervals is recommended. This involves dismantling the V3 clutch, washing the plates in petrol or similar solvent, and then soaking them in Shell Advance Lightweight Gear Oil 10W/SAE10 (or equivalent for at least 3 hours prior to reassembly."
I suppose much has been learned since this was written last century, but I think I will try it anyway. For my mileage this will just be an annual maintenance thing.
Other things to note from work before I put it together;
The tabs on the plates were not very consistent in size. They varied in distance across the tab from .525 to .519, though the majority of them were around .520 to .521. I "blueprinted" them all with a file, as Greg suggests, and settled on .520 as the target. I found that one stroke of a sharp file was equal to a .001 reduction, so this was pretty easy. (I did not figure out how to add material with a file....) I then stoned all the tabs to remove any sharp edges or the remains of the shearing marks from when they were made. This did improve the slide fit, at least they went in quite nicely by hand.
The plates again lifted unevenly when I reassembled the clutch, despite my previous work. I carefully swapped springs around, but still got some cocking and eventually had to add three washers under each of three springs to get even lift. I may order a new set of springs this winter, since I probably have the heavy original type, and I think there may be newer versions that are softer now, and perhaps more equal in strength.
The travel I am getting from the top of the G91 fork to abutment is 11/16" and the travel at the hand lever is 3/4", so I am getting some compression of the cable housing. I will try to fix that. Again from the V3 instructions:
"The clutch cable should be Bowden type outer casing as this does not compress the coils around the bends and hence eliminates the sponginess associated with some low cost inferior outer casings."
All in all, a pretty interesting exercise. Hopefully next summer will be trouble free.
Ron
"The V3 clutch is designed to be run in oil and to be maintenance free.......However....the V3 clutch can be run dry like the Vincent unit. The disadvantage of this is that periodic maintenance at 3000 km intervals is recommended. This involves dismantling the V3 clutch, washing the plates in petrol or similar solvent, and then soaking them in Shell Advance Lightweight Gear Oil 10W/SAE10 (or equivalent for at least 3 hours prior to reassembly."
I suppose much has been learned since this was written last century, but I think I will try it anyway. For my mileage this will just be an annual maintenance thing.
Other things to note from work before I put it together;
The tabs on the plates were not very consistent in size. They varied in distance across the tab from .525 to .519, though the majority of them were around .520 to .521. I "blueprinted" them all with a file, as Greg suggests, and settled on .520 as the target. I found that one stroke of a sharp file was equal to a .001 reduction, so this was pretty easy. (I did not figure out how to add material with a file....) I then stoned all the tabs to remove any sharp edges or the remains of the shearing marks from when they were made. This did improve the slide fit, at least they went in quite nicely by hand.
The plates again lifted unevenly when I reassembled the clutch, despite my previous work. I carefully swapped springs around, but still got some cocking and eventually had to add three washers under each of three springs to get even lift. I may order a new set of springs this winter, since I probably have the heavy original type, and I think there may be newer versions that are softer now, and perhaps more equal in strength.
The travel I am getting from the top of the G91 fork to abutment is 11/16" and the travel at the hand lever is 3/4", so I am getting some compression of the cable housing. I will try to fix that. Again from the V3 instructions:
"The clutch cable should be Bowden type outer casing as this does not compress the coils around the bends and hence eliminates the sponginess associated with some low cost inferior outer casings."
All in all, a pretty interesting exercise. Hopefully next summer will be trouble free.
Ron
Hi Ernie, I know my bars are aftermarket, since they are chrome, but they bend much closer to the bar clamps than the picture you show. I can see how yours would work well. By the way, I hope to get that much wear on my grips before I have to put the bike away for good someday. After starting it in the cold today, I was wishing for an electric starter. That's probably what I will need to get grips that worn.
Good advice about the abutment. I don't see how it makes any difference where the travel is since the lever only moves in about 3/4 to 7/8 of the available space up by the inspection cap. Seems like farther out would keep it away from the gear change and kickstart, and I can't picture the leverage changing much in any location.
Ron