Thinking about a 1952 Black Shadow

[Ducdude]

No longer just thinking I now OWN a 1952 Black Shadow

Greetings all,

First time posting to this forum so please forgive me any misteps. I am considering purchasing a non running 52 Black Shadow that has been sitting in a garage since the 70's and as this is my first Vincent I would like to ask for your input...Bike is currently in the US

The engine number is F10AB/1B9522 Placing at the end of the 1952 model run as I understand them.. The rear frame seems to be from a Comet RC/1/6659 (I think this Comet is currently running around the UK somewhere..)

The odometer reads 7225mi but I have no idea if this is accurate.
The engine is stove-enameled and the engine numbers designate this as a Black Shadow
The general condition of the bike is good with decent original paint
Little to no ware on the mud guards
Light rust/pitting on the hardware
Seat is complete but needs a new cover
Fuel lines are rotted
Tank is rust free as far as I can tell
There is no title to the bike
The pistons do spin with the turning of the rear wheel no idea of compression
The carbies are Amels so that is not right
The pipes seem to be wrong but solid and functional
The headlight does not seem to be original
There is no kick starter
The front forks have some odd grease or "zerk" fittings installed that seem to have been an after thought..


That is what I know now for the questions:

Is it possible that this is a Rapide with a Black shadow engine and a Comet tail?

With the current value of such a bike in this condition what would be a fair value for the like?

My intent is the do a rolling restoration on the bike, getting it running, safe and reliable, I am not interested in putting it back to stock configuration or making a 100pt show queen but I am interested in making it a daily runner. Is this a wise move?

Once purchased how much could I expect to have to invest in her to get her back on the street according to the above desire?

What would be the BIG things to keep in mind to take care of before any real trouble shooting takes place...

I have worked on Italian, German and Japanese bikes from the 70's on so this would be my first foray into the earlier decades.

I have attached a picture of the bike and I would be interested in your input (I have a few other pictures as well if that would be helpful)...Am I totally insane to take on a task of this magnitude and expense or does this all make good sense


I have lusted after these bikes for more then half my life and I have been close a few times only to miss out for one reason or another....

I welcome all feedback.

Cheers,
Eric

 

[timetraveller]

Go for it Eric or you will regret it for the rest of your life. Such finds are rare now. Although matching engine and frame numbers matter to those who regard these bikes as collectors items or investment, to the rest of us it does not matter at all. The photograph suggests that the bike is in good order but things like rust inside the engine, worn bearings etc cannot be determined from a photograph. If the engine is totally worn out and you have to replace every bearing, piston, spindle, cam etc then it is likely to cost you about $5K to $7k for all the parts if you can do the work yourself. In general Vincents are easy to work on and my guess is that you would find it a pleasure to learn how they are made and some of the clever ideas which they contain. There are several books which you will find listed on this forum at various times which you should buy and read carefully before starting the work and you must have the spare parts list which shows every component in exploded diagram format. If you can find a local Vincent expert, as opposed to a local who thinks that they know it all, then ask for help and advice. It could save you a lot of money.

It is no good asking what it is worth. A concourse Black Shadow will fetch about £50k at auction but the auction houses take about 20% out of that. Assuming that it is not a bag of nails then you would do very well to get it for $30k and even 50% more than that might still be sensible depending upon the mechanical condition. Good luck.

 

[Albervin]

Eric, don't feel you have to rush in because you will miss out & not get another chance. There are good machines coming up for sale all the time within the club.
There is no mention of the UFM number on the headstock. It could be a mix of 2 or 3 bikes depending on what that number is. Numbers don't make a machine run better or more reliably they only
offer good returns on capital investment! Get someone who knows one end of a Vincent from the other to have a good look at it if possible. Ideally it would be good if you could remove the timing cover for a look
inside. It would be good if they could bring a kickstart with them to check compression too.
There are grease nipples all over a Vincent (Series "A"s had even more) & some owners like to add a few more! They had Amal carbs so not sure why you think they are incorrect.
Check to see if there is any oil in the tank, if not then it is probably all in the sump. Remove it before trying to kick start it & add fresh 20-50W.
Chances are the generator & magneto will need refurbishing, the former is not as important as the latter!
Don't buy it with your heart instead of your head, our astronomer friend is close with his pricing but if you can't do the work yourself then the labour rate could be considerable & the amount of time taken
could stretch from several months to several years!! But don't let me put you off because the old Honda message also applies to Vincents, "You meet the nicest people on a Vincent"!!

 

[bmetcalf]

The Keystone Section of the VOC is very active and I'm sure members would be happy to help you. Consider joining the Club. See https://www.voc.uk.com/clubshop/applform.php

 

[Albervin]

Eric, there is a very original Series B Rapide on the USA e-bay site. Seller is a well known Vincent person who could be of help in restoring it.

 

[Ducdude]

Thanks Bruce I knew I would hear join the club so I have gone and done just that 5 mins ago and listed Keystone and Washington Area sections as my 1 and 2...

Let the games begin...

Just so I remember in 2 years when I am beating my head on the lift trying to get the blasted thing running cursing myself for giving up the tranquility that is my current mix of bikes this was the time where it all started to go wrong..

Cheers,
Eric

 

[Ducdude]

Thanks Albervin,

I will check the UFM number on the headstock tomorrow to see what the story is…For a Black Shadow what should I be looking for?

As fare as the timing cover goes, I can not believe I have to ask this but which side of the bike is that on and what tools are needed to get a peek behind it. Additionally are there any tricks or special care that needs to be taken when removing?

Once removed what should I be looking for and what pray tell SHOULD I see?

If this progresses to the money stage I will then have a go at checking the compression..

The carbies veracity came into question from a knowledgeable third party that I have not met face to face as of yet….the i.d. as Amals was from the current holder of the bike and may have been an error…I will check tomorrow…

Thanks for the tip on the oil, is any 20/50 grade oil preferred for these beauties?
(Probably a bad question to ask on any moto forum)

I plan to do as much of the work myself as possible leaving the smaller specialty jobs for those that know…

Funny you mention the Honda quote as many of my classic Hondas will have to be sold to make room both spatially and financially for the Shadow .

Cheers,
Eric

 

[Ducdude]

Thanks Time,

I can see we are of the same mind…. I really want to go into this with my eyes open, and I have the time as the bike is going no where fast.. I believe the engine is ok and free of rust as it has sat inside over the years 150-200 miles from the ocean. It spins fine and easy. You mention key books and, “the spare parts list which shows every component in exploded diagram format” could you point me to suitable titles and a source as well as a good name and location to get a service or restoration manual?

Ciao,
Duc

 

[Ducdude]

Hmmmm very interesting..

Thanks,
Eric

 

[Ducdude]

(Wrong? At times probably yes, but in the long run absolutely NO.

I'm sure you will get it running and welcome to the club)

Nulli,

Please forgive as I can not connect your answers to the proper questions.

Duc