Swearing on the VOC Forum

[Graham Smith]

Graham,

I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about this. I don't think you're qualified to argue your point, to be brutally frank. I am right and you afre wrong. It really is as simple as that, old bean.

Nor do I think you can cite any VOC rule giving you the right to threaten to exclude me from a website subsidised by members, including myself, because I have exercised my right to raise perfectly reasonable objections to a condition of doubtful validity.

If the question of contributing to MPH were to arise, Graham, you would be accorded the usual one-use licence with the fees waived or, were you offering a nominal fee, ordered donated to a motorcycle racers' widows and orphans fund or some other good cause. I think you would find this to be more or less the case with any of the professional writers I know in the VOC's ranks.

I've made my point. You're stepping down from the editorship of MPH soon. I have nothing against you personally. I wish you well. For someone without any apparent qualifications for the job, you've made a good fist of it. Some members lament the MPH of John Webber and earlier incumbents like "Rab" Butler but times change.

PK

Goodness me. I will today write to Doug Wood pleading with him to start jtan again. With any luck, as soon as it does, these inane conversations can be taken back to where they belong.

Judging by the tone of some your posts on our forum - what a thoroughly unpleasant individual you appear to be.

 

[BlackLightning998]

Mmmmm, riding into the affray.....

Morning All,

I happen to be personally of the opinion that Graham has done an outstanding job of editing MPH to name but one thing he has done to further the objects of the VOC as laid out in the Club Rules.

Assuming that the "embedded" posting is for public consumption I'd like to distance myself just as far as I possibly could from it and any comment similarly describing it as "For someone without any apparent qualifications for the job, you've made a good fist of it." I think that's an unfortunate choice of words which may well be the expression of someone's perception and therefore their reality, however, personally, I think it unhelpful, unecessary, unproductive and uncalled for here though.

Very well done Graham in my view, many others sit of the sidelines and place ticking packages on the table, offer less than (in my opinion) constructive critisicim and yet do little or nothing that I can see to contribute to MPH in any form of attempt to improve the things they've identified need improving.

I think the Forum and MPH are all the better for Graham Smith and I think that, whilst he and I certainly don't see eye to eye on everything that has recently happened in this Club of ours, and on occasion quite recently have found each other diametrically opposed such as the debarcle of the Club Chairman, Tim Kirker's as yet unevidenced allegation of defamation of character by one member of another, the balance is a huge positive from his input and influence.

No, the Forum and MPH are not perfect and human beings are involved, but my goodness the Forum is an outstanding tool in my opinion and I know for one that I simply could not devote the time and energy to it that Graham Smith has - and I think a few words of thanks, or even silence would be far preferable than what I've read here this morning.

Thank you Graham Smith is what I say.

Opinions are great, but what about:

An article or two for MPH.

Or a motion or two at GCM.

Or some other constructive contribution to support the objects of the Club

Or silence......

See you tomorrow at Kempton PK.

Regards to all

Stuart

Goodness me. I will today write to Doug Wood pleading with him to start jtan again. With any luck, as soon as it does, these inane conversations can be taken back to where they belong.

 

[Prosper Keating]

What we have here is a five page thread on legalising expletives and pejoratives. It just occurred to me that this is very funny indeed, although one needs a sense of humour and the absurd to appreciate it.

What we need instead of all this negative sh1t is some vision and to remember that this should be fun. Fun is a major factor in our decision to ride motorcycles, particularly Vincent-HRDs. We wouldn't have to have multi-page debates about expletives and pejoratives if we were having fun, would we?

On the subject of doing good works for the VOC and, furthermore, for classic and mainstream motorcycling in general, I did propose some exposure of the replica Black Shadow for mainstream media, along with film coverage for editing into news pieces and end stories, approaching the topic from various angles. Nobody ever got back about it, I had no time to chase people, and the machine was subsequently knocked down at auction to cover basic costs. I suppose some of you will think me jolly "unpleasant" indeed for mentioning it but as "debâcles" go, to borrow Stuart's term, it's a good 'un.

So, here's an idea for a GCM motion: let's build another Series C Black Shadow, funded by the VOC with a long term low interest or no interest loan, and, as Vic Youel suggested, conduct a rerun of Tony Rose's road test, with proper media coverage. I am sure David L and I could help with this coverage, as well as producing the VOC's own film for DVD release, featuring carefully cast and styled riders for maximum marketability. Rose's occasional passenger is still alive so we could hook up a chair - a modern but retro Watsonian - just as Rose did for the winter months, and take him around in it. Plus interviews with PCV's grandson, who is keenly interested in his grandfather's achievements. Wonderful 'filler' for TV companies and news channels!

On that note, I am going to stop crossing swords with people on this forum because it's pointless. It degenerates into the sort of nastiness that would surely lead to fists and boots in a pub situation. It is no good for anyone.

PK

 

[manxnortonman]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
Lets not degenerate down to the level of 70% or so of the population who think every other word of profanity is acceptable. Its no wonder the children have mouths like sewers when you walk through a town and listen to the parents or indeeed the TV. I challenge anyone who swears in front of my wife whether they are intoxicated or not. If you want to live in a nice society then set the standards by which you want to live and not be led by the masses.

Garry

 

[BlackLightning998]

On articles and Shadows....

Hi PK,

I'd have thought that MPH would have a mechanism, or find a mechanism to allow it to do the "one time" print, I'm afraid that I can't think of any specific examples without trawling the library but I think I recall material produced by kind permission type statements under one or two things I've seen in there.

Some material produced by a professional journalist would make the magazine all the better for the members I guess - unfortuanately whilst I was accepted for the one year pre-entry jpournalism course at Napier University I never took up the place as Eddie Shah was afoot and I plumped (correctly I think today) for the Hospitality Industry as an alternative where I have happily spent my career instead. I did edit the School Magazine though for two years!!

Perhaps Graham could comment on the MPH issue?

On the Shadow - if you search threads you may find the fairly blunt exchanges that I and others had on this Forum with the Canadian second bidder who was brave enough to put his head above the wall - he said that when he bid he had the funds and when he "won" because the first guy dropped out he couldn't financially fulfill his deal. My other passion in life is collecting Toy Trains, I have a lot of experience of auction buying internationally, a bids a binding contract in my book - and had a "pop" at him, as did others.

As for the "knock down" - I was saddened and also erroneous in my thoughts - I thought the bike would break £50K and neither bothered to go nor place a "safety" bid - I would have dearly loved the opportunity to own this machine for the money it made, and would have taken great pleasure in riding it enthusiastically on the road. I'd have happily paid what it sold for. My loss, but then there's no telling what the purchaser would have actually gone to.

I heard it looked shabby when it went under the hammer - I think that a great shame - I would have gone and detailed it for free. We're better than that - and it didn't serve the objects of the Club well in my view.

I'm with you - we should have kept it, enjoyed it, promoted it and used it to drive forward the objects of the Club, a wonderful achievement, a great piece of engineering and it could have been a long term advertising banner for the Club to draw new and younger membership to protect the future. Instead it's gone where? doing what? - I know not what....

I'm with you on that one.

I don't think you "jolly unpleasant" by the way to be clear, I just don't agree with (my interpretation of) your opinions on this one leaving interpretation of facts to one side, and don't like the way you said what you said which at best was open to ambiguity (unlike you), pre editing as I now understand it.

Written word is often a double edged sword isn't it.

I think it was my father who used to quote something along the lines of "never put down in writing something you wouldn't have read out in open court and held against you".

I've probably lived and worked in PLC-land for too long now - and get, on occasion, overly cautious as a result. Therefore many sentences start with, in my opinion.

Cheers

Stuart


"As for an article or two for MPH, I am afraid that I can't comply with the terms and conditions proposed. However, as I think I might already have mentioned, I did propose some exposure of the replica Black Shadow for mainstream media, along with film coverage for editing into news pieces and end stories, approaching the topic from various angles.

Nobody ever got back and the machine was knocked down at auction to cover basic costs. I suppose some of you will think me jolly unpleasant indeed for mentioning it..."

 

[timetraveller]

Could I add my two penorth in support of BlackLightning998. It is true that non of us is perfect. Good heavens, even I occasionally make mistakes. I think Graham does a superb job. Remember that he has a family and a job as well as MPH and this forum. I do not know how he finds the time but am very grateful that he does. Let those who think that they can do better volunteer. I know that I could not do it. On the other hand I think PK's suggestion for another 100k miles is interesting but someone is going to get a calloused behind doing it.

Is it not remarkable just how many responses this thread has evoked in such a short amount of time?

 

[Mickthevin]

Censorship

As i am sure anybody who has ever had the pleasure (?) of my company for a period of longer than 5 minutes i do swear fairly regularly. In fact i have been known to make foul mouthed navy stokers blush. Perhaps this was due to my upbringing or more likely due to several years serving in her majestys forces in various (un)desirable parts of the globe.
Some people like it and some people dont and contrary to popular belief i have an automatic filter built into my brain to reduce said "foul" language in inappropiate circumstances. I appreciate that the filter would have no effect if i posted a comment on the forum as i have no control as to who "hears" it.
All i can say is a word is a word and no word has ever offended me and i find it incomprehensible as to how a word could offend somebody. What i do find offensive is people who make comments along the lines of implying i am ignorant because i do swear and therefore have a small vocabulary and have to back my argument with expletives. That is b******s.
Democracy will decide and i will live with that.
The most upsetting thing i have encountered on this forum occurred last year when i posted a rememberance thread on 11th november. This thread was removed because in the words of graham "things were getting silly". I did see one comment left by somebody from america going on about his birthday and i assume the rest were along those lines. Well if some tosser wants to make a derogatory comment like that then that is up to him and if it was left in the public domain then everybody could see it and also see what a w****r that person is.
I appreciate that this is a motorcycle related forum but given that the average age of club members must be over 65 and i am a generation behind you would have thought that a certain amount of respect would be afforded to those who have fallen on our behalf - even for morons like that.

Mick farwell

 

[Prosper Keating]

another 100k miles is interesting but someone is going to get a calloused behind doing it.

I shouldn't think there'd be a shortage of volunteers! Mind you, an average of 275 miles a day for a year is quite a tall order. If we accepted that we were just testing the bike, it could be divided between numerous riders but it would involve ploughing up and down the Septic Isle over and over again and a lot of planning to have available riders hot-seating it. Doinf some of it in Europe would make it easier, given the greater ease of travel at faster speeds in other EU countries. A trip from my place in Paris to Hervé Hamon's place and back could be done solo in a long day and would take care of over two days of average distance required.

I think Graham does a superb job. Remember that he has a family and a job as well as MPH and this forum. I do not know how he finds the time but am very grateful that he does.

Just to be absolutely clear on this point, I wasn't taking issue with the job Graham does as EiC of MPH. I was taking issue with the 'rule' in question, which I believe was added very recently to the rules of this forum, after I signed up as a member. It is clearly adapted from the "Copyright Policy" tacked onto the end of the Disclaimer section on the inside front cover of MPH.

Just because I think that Graham is pushing terms and conditions that would be unacceptable to professional writers as a matter of principle, it doesn't follow that I think that he does not produce a good magazine. I hope this is now clear to everyone.

On that score, I understand that the Club wishes to reduce the risk of key web content disappearing if, for instance, the contributor who posted it throws a wobbly one day and removes his material or orders it removed. It is very annoying to read interesting threads with vital parts missing. However, there are ways of addressing this without getting people's backs up.

If management could accept that seeking advice or help from mere members is not tantamount to some fatal admission of weakness or failure but simply practical, both the magazine and the website might end up with perfectly reasonable terms and conditions relating to contributions, equitable to all parties involved. It is all fairly normal stuff in our business.

It is no longer an issue for me. If I ever contribute to MPH, the magazine will either accept my terms and conditions regarding the use of my work or it will not publish my work. Simple as that. This does not mean that I would not entertain any editorial suggestions or requests or that I would refuse to let MPH and the VOC use my work for other purposes were it of benefit to the VOC and my fellow members.

A moot point now, I think...

PK

 

[mercurycrest]

No, censoring is silly. I occasionally look at a site that did this and it really screwed things up... and I mean bigtime. If someone said "Hello" it would come up: ****o! See what I mean? You can't imagine the mess it created (Catholics attend M*** etc.), they finally gave up and went back to being uncensored. Bottom line is , We're all big boys and girls, if someone has a problem with an occasional Ango-Saxon blaspheme they can learn to relax and overlook it.

 

[Bazlerker]

Gentlemen,
This all reminds me of an exercise that I was asked to play as a child..a group of 40 of us children sat in a circle..and the first child said to the person on his right - " my dog has fleas"..and by the time it had been filtered through 39 children the last person said "my dad has bad knees".

We have digressed..let us return to the question at hand and leave other matters, issues, questions for another day & another place.