sparkplug indexing

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davidd

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David, not wishing to be nasty, but is that a spot of detonation I detect in the squish pockets? Also, I bet you do not run air filters.

Roy,

No problem, I think that you may be correct. I cannot remember exactly when the head came off. This is an early photo. I bought the bike from John Renwick and I think this was the first time I took the head off. I suspect the bike had been run with a variety of fuels, including pump gas. No air cleaners. Since I have been running the bike I do not see the carbon build up that is on this head. I was concerned that the 90 degree squish bands would cause detonation (which it appears to be doing here), but after a rebuild and new piston due to a big end failure I have had no issues. I have been running 108 to 112 octane fuel.

David
 

Kansas Bad Man

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I started this thread to inform the group of my thoughts on a minor tuning tip, that maybe would give the tuner a edge. That was met with thanks from some, and one that was quite adamant, his assessment was that it was voodoo , and his sole objection as to its worth was that it was impossible to measure in any way of consistence. So a physiatrist point of view is one, if the measuring of a result is suspect , it is a waste of time and money and probably doesn't exist and is fare game to ridicule with a onslaught hypotheticals .

Golf Balls were once covered with round concave dimples . Those people that think out of the box, thought it may be possible to improve the aerodynamics of a Golf Ball. It was found that hexagon shaped dimples provide a more aerodynamic surface and the golf would travel a few feet further
then the now obsolete round dimpled Golf Ball. The hex golf ball is now the norm, it is with out question the guy that wins the GREEN jacket used a golf ball that is just barley superior, but never the less superior. And advantage can be nitpicked by the nitpicker, if the advantage is slight, and the nitpicker is not a peer in the pursuit of minute gains , he may nitpick and poopoo , refer to it as voodoo , but for the winners of the checkered flags at Daytona, Indy rest assured those insignificant (to a non peer) advantages are golden , Indexing takes little time , and with budgets in the millions, you can see why a non peer , proves himself to be a different bread then the racer , referring several times to the cost and time , neither will ever understand each other, so it will be my intention to ignore those flying different colors. Birds of a feather flock together.;)
 

Magnetoman

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his sole objection as to its worth was that it was impossible to measure in any way of consistence.
That is correct. My sole objection is that since apparently this effect is too small to measure whether or not it exists at all, let alone even which way the spark plug should be oriented, it is a matter of belief. However, like all such beliefs, there is no way to argue with someone who insists on holding it. I am sure there are people who genuinely believe a rabbit's foot will make them faster. I'm equally sure there is nothing I could say to affect such a belief.

While arguing with someone convinced of their beliefs is pointless, there are many people who might not have thought about the problem and simply accepted those beliefs as facts. The reason it is worthwhile to discuss things like this isn't to change the mind of true believers, it is to help the latter question whether or not something they had previously accepted was founded on something real, or was only a belief that had been repeated enough times that it had been incorrectly assumed to be fact.

Those people that think out of the box, thought it may be possible to improve the aerodynamics of a Golf Ball. It was found that hexagon shaped dimples provide a more aerodynamic surface and the golf would travel a few feet further
The issue of spark plug indexing has nothing to do with thinking out of the box. With golf balls, the effect on the aerodynamics is quite measurable. That they travel farther is a real, measurable effect, not a belief.

if the advantage is slight, and the nitpicker is not a peer in the pursuit of minute gains , he may nitpick and poopoo , refer to it as voodoo
As I've said several times before, if there actually were a 1% improvement that gain definitely would be worthwhile. In no way am I arguing against pursuing minute gains. However, if an effect is too small to be detected, and therefore it only exists as a belief, it is voodoo, not science.

I believe a more relevant analogy than golf balls is the porting of heads. Prior to the introduction of flow benches practices were developed through trial and error that certainly gave measurable improvements on dynos. Port shapes, polishing, etc. practices were established that became the norm. However, aerodynamics is tricky, and shapes that "look aerodynamic" very often are not. Once flow benches came on the scene some of those porting practices were found to actually decrease the flow. Although gains had been made before flow benches, it was because one alteration might have given a 10% improvement, while another a 5% loss. So, while overall there was a gain it wasn't as large as it could be.

The point is, especially when working at the margins to try to pick up minute gains, only if you can measure something can you hope to make systematic improvements. Otherwise, you're operating at a huge handicap compared to someone else who bases their modifications on science, not belief.
 

vincenttwin

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So it is best to point the gap towards the inlet ,between,or to the exhaust Valve .

4. Indexing

This is for racers only !!
Indexing refers to a process whereby auxiliary washers of varying thickness are placed under the spark plug's shoulder so that when the spark plug is tightened, the gap will point in the desired direction.

However, without running an engine on a dyno, it is impossible to gauge which type of indexing works best in your engine. While most engines like the spark plug's gap open to the intake valve, there are still other combinations that make more power with the gap pointed toward the exhaust valve.

In any case, engines with indexed spark plugs will typically make only a few more horsepower, typically less than 1% of total engine output. For a 500hp engine, you'd be lucky to get 5hp. While there are exceptions, the bottom line is that without a dyno, gauging success will be difficult.
 

Bill Thomas

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Why do you say for racers only, Vincents have been having plug trouble for as long as I remember, Because of over oiling or Mag 'trouble, If Max thinks it would keep the plugs cleaner I think it's worth a try, I have had Vin's for 49 years, And would never go for a ride without a spare plug and spanner. Cheers Bill.
 

Kansas Bad Man

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When I started this thread I never clamed huge HP gains. I said 1 or 2 freebies on your twin. I own my own water brake type dyno for testing my streamliner. indexing the plugs to the exhaust valve shows a positive 12 H.P. gain. This was not a one pull thing on a good day for air but has told me on several days, playing on the dyno, there is a small advantage in indexing your plugs. You wont feel it by the seat of your pants type testing but its there. I cant under stand TT poopooing a 5 H.P. gain which there for the taking.
 

vincenttwin

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So I have one for towards the exhaust and the indexing washer web site says towards the inlet , So its in the middle for me ,I guess it makes sense not to hide the spark plug gap from the incoming charge, so gap pointing any where from inlet to exhaust should help. Charles any
scientific reason why this would not be a good thing.
 

Kansas Bad Man

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Sorry TT , the comment was meant for vincenttwin . Could the mystery of magentman's name been accidently raveled . :eek:
 

timetraveller

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No offence taken Max. On a different front; some time ago I seem to remember you showing a picture of the clutch on the streamliner and it was a seriously large bit of kit. Among my friends here I have a chum who works for a company that makes clutches for everything from formula one to touring car racers. They use carbon fibre discs as small as 110mm, just over 4",and up to about a foot across, for a lot of BHP. I do not want to interfere or even get involved but if an introduction to him might be useful let me know. I do understand that it is not just the BHP but the torque which is important but I would guess that some of these chaps have a lot more power and torque to cope with then the streamliner and they do it round race tracks, not just in a straight line. Let me know if this is of interest.
 

Kansas Bad Man

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HI TT

The liner has an overall gear of 1:3 to 1 with a 3 speed transmission and a 26 inch tall rear tire. When the liner leaves the line it is like your stock Vincent trying to get under way in high gear, to combat this seemingly impossible task , the liner is pushed up to 60 MPH and then the slider clutch slips until the clutch to engine RPM reaches 2500 engine RPM then locks up by just the right amount of finger weights to make this happen. The slider clutch frication plate material can withstand tremendous heat, the material was first used on the brakes of the UK AIR BUS, the plates in my liner are SWISS made. Thanks for the offer but the clutch is working pretty good and is living, its one of those "if it ant broke, don't fix it".

Cheers ---Max

PS I have about $1500 worth of spares for the clutch, the friction clutch plates are about$175.00 a pop!
 
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