E: Engine Rocker Bearing

[rapide049]

Um, well if you can catch me first... the old carpet beater is what I used to get, not that I'm that bad, or, I can buy you a drink when we meet ?

A Drink or two sounds like the go

 

[Alyson]

I stand behind what I say. I can offer up this (empty) but highly collectable souvenir for my being equally empty headed in my previous statement. Just the one, as the other I will save for myself.

 

[rapide049]

I stand behind what I say. I can offer up this (empty) but highly collectable souvenir for my being equally empty headed in my previous statement. Just the one, as the other I will save for myself.

Hooligan , does it turn you into a wild Lawless Man

 

[roger v]

Depends - I don´t have common needle bearings in there, but crowded, so this means about factor 2-3 higher load carrying. Same with camshafts running on crowded types. You could find lots of rockers with needle bearings in them, crowded in sports Earles BMWs like R 69 S and common types in later /5 or /6 types. So it is a matter of dimensions, not just rocking motions. Same applies to taper rollers in swing arms and all, not great but provided no grit or water gets in they last very long. Brinell effects are due to exceding load properties of that bearing, not from small rocking operation.
A bronce bush in the Vincent rocker might not last extremely long I´d think, just the total surface as a plain bearing is not really ample ?
I did a number crowded needle followers , in the Guzzi and three sets for prewar Horexes, original no bushes in them does not work long, too poor lubrication and only limited space for a lasting plain bearing type. You can find roller followers in modern cars too, or KTM. Just dimensions for the job have to be suitable, so no brinelling by rotation or just rocking.

Vic

View attachment 61519

View attachment 61521

View attachment 61522

 

[roger v]

Depends - I don´t have common needle bearings in there, but crowded, so this means about factor 2-3 higher load carrying. Same with camshafts running on crowded types. You could find lots of rockers with needle bearings in them, crowded in sports Earles BMWs like R 69 S and common types in later /5 or /6 types. So it is a matter of dimensions, not just rocking motions. Same applies to taper rollers in swing arms and all, not great but provided no grit or water gets in they last very long. Brinell effects are due to exceding load properties of that bearing, not from small rocking operation.
A bronce bush in the Vincent rocker might not last extremely long I´d think, just the total surface as a plain bearing is not really ample ?
I did a number crowded needle followers , in the Guzzi and three sets for prewar Horexes, original no bushes in them does not work long, too poor lubrication and only limited space for a lasting plain bearing type. You can find roller followers in modern cars too, or KTM. Just dimensions for the job have to be suitable, so no brinelling by rotation or just rocking.

Vic

View attachment 61519

View attachment 61521

View attachment 61522

I can follow your logic regarding the needles , the more of the crowd , the higher the tolerance to the load specially when dealing with a rocking motion . Are the details of your assembly of parts available for general release to the membership , if so would make interesting piece in MPH

 

[oexing]

Roger, bearings for rocking motions are not exposed to extra hard conditions just because there is rocking motion. Just they have to have the load properties in that operation. In rockers or roller followers there is not much space for a bush or needle bearing, so a caged bearing is a bad idea as you´d lose about 2/3 of the load available from a crowded type.
My modified camshafts or rockers are no serious proposition to other Vincenteers unless they like a few hours on the lathe and all, it is a lot of hassle to do, working out what you got about sizes found on these clapped out components. As to sizes for crowded needle bearings you may look up PDF files from INA so it is no secret to get sizes for inner and outer races, depending on needle diameters and numbers of needles in the bearing.
The spindles for the camshafts are homemade and case hardened to fit with the new Andrews cams. You cannot have standard spindles for the needle bearings as diameters have to be according to specs from the INA files. That means there shall not be a gap between first and last needle more than 0.10mm/ 4 thou, so they do not like to run crooked.
Too many variables in most engines, depending on wear found in components, so this is in most cases a big fitting exercise , not a reasonable job for a Spares Co. to sell sets. They would have to offer complete sets of components like camshafts, spindles and needles machined for that type of crowded bearings.
In the photo below rockers from a BMW R 69 S , overhauled to go with more and smaller needles as the standard needle set had more than 100 000km in my use - from 1972 up till now.
When you´d like to look up the sizes for crowded needle bearings, click on the Google link below, download the Schaeffler PDF at top link and scroll down to page 70 and following . There are files of sizes for shafts and outer races given for needle diameters and numbers of them.

Vic

Crowded needle bearings PDF:
Schaeffler PDF

 

[vibrac]

Needle roller cams still turn up occasionally I think they were made by Hillgate motors in the late 60's on they may well have done rockers as well. In fact somewhere in my stash.....

 

[oexing]

These would have been crowded types I guess ? You cannot have standard needle bearings with inner and outer races plus cages. That would leave only weak spindles with reduced diameters which was not acceptable to me. For my rocker needle bearings I needed some hard outer "race" to go with the alu blocks I had to do as bores for them in the heads were extremely worn out. For these "races" I got the deep drawn needle bearings and just used the remains of the race with 1mm wall, the rest went into the bin.

Vic

 

[Vincent Brake]

The best idea ever seen Vic.
!!!

 

[oexing]

I do not count hours in my workshop for these activities. But the big plus is I do not have to ride my bikes while I mess around in the workshop . . .

Vic