Rapide/ Black Shadow wanted.

[kerry]

I agree with Carl, however, A good matching numbers with an up to date certificate will always be easy to sell when you no longer need it, one without will not be as a friend of mine has found out, a nice bike that did come from the spares company as a non matching bike.
Personally I think best to buy a non matching bike at the moment as long as it is a big saving his was not.
What worries me is obvious re stamps or even worse ground off engine numbers, were they stolen at some point ?
To get back to Martin who is looking for a bike, again check with Simon first before buying.
My advice buy a non matching if good mechanically at under £30,000 or you lose money on selling, or a matching good one at £35000,
KXM77 that failed to reach it's reserve was then offered at around this figure yesterday by the auction house.
I saw this bike yesterday and did ride it, I was worried by a few things but these were sorted I am told last night so a genuine all matching completely restored with proof from crank upwards can today be bought at around £35000.
Prices are dropping so don't rush, the spares Company now has workshops checking sale bikes first so a good place to consider but with prices dropping best to haggle a bit.
Kerry

 

[Chris Launders]

I am genuinely puzzled at times by some peoples fixation on matching numbers, the only difference is the numbers, they were all made by the same people in the same factory.

I love things like "I shall be keeping it forever" then worrying about the resale value.

I personally have a "standard" twin with a Rapide engine in a Comet chassis (it's been that way for most of it's life), a Norvin, which obviously can't have anything matching and a 1933 Brough Superior, where the only thing matching it's works record card are the frame and crankcases, it does have genuine tanks, off a 1938 SS80 (Brough tanks are numbered) and most of the rest is unidentifiable original parts or replica ones.

Do these things affect resale value, yes, but I didn't buy or build them to sell, I did it because I wanted them, and have no interest in selling them and even if I had to and I lost money (which would be highly unlikely given what they have cost me) so be it, I have them for the pleasure of using them, not as investments.

 

[Speedtwin]

Easier to sell and ultimately worth more.
Do not ride any better and put two beside each other of similar age and condition the matcher is the one to go first.

It is a strange world.
Prices at recent auctions are well down, market flooded with bikes for sale values are plummeting across all of the makes.
The coming Bonhams has a shed load of Vincents all set for very low sale prices even the very rare machines will suffer.
Good time to be a buyer, plenty of choice out there and good value to be had.

Do I agree matching-non matching numbers no difference in experience but big but matching will always go and matching for the sake of the inevitable death sale for the family....

Doomed we are all doomed.....
But we can enjoy the ride...............

 

[Peter Holmes]

I have never purchased a Vincent with the intention to "Wheel and Deal" to make a profit, my main rider, a 1949 Rapide, was purchased by myself in 1965, and I am in the process of putting it back together, having been off the road for 18 months due to remedial engine work. Were I wanting to acquire another Vincent I would definitely seek out a matching numbers machine. That might seem hard to understand, it obviously makes zero difference to the riding experience, and whichever bike you choose, you should be aware that almost certainly you are unlikely to get back all of your purchase price money should you decide to sell it in the future.

So you may well ask why I would choose an original factory despatched bike in preference to a motorcycle whereby all the parts of the motorcycle came out of the factory doors, but not all at the same time on the same bike, it has little to do with resale value, or ride ability, in reality whatever one purchases, currently, and almost certainly in the future, you would be unlikely to get your money back whichever you choose. I can only draw the conclusion from my own perspective, that it has to do with an enhanced pride of ownership, knowing that the machine you own is still assembled with the same genuine component parts that it left the factory with 75 years ago, that might, only might, indicate that the original bike had never sustained serious damage at sometime during its life, that is the best explanation that I can come up with, whether that makes any sense I have no idea.

 

[Martin Hand]

Peter you have answered my thoughts entirely, I understand a non matching number bike probably rides exactly the same but you hopefully know that as Peter said it is original from the factory gates, (hopefully!!) but the more I search for a bike it seems like in every walk of life people are trying to rip you off, with false stampings. It was great to talk to Kerry on the phone yesterday who has a wealth of knowledge and has been very helpful. Thank you.

 

[greg brillus]

For a very long time these bikes like all machines became yesterday's junk.......So many bikes broken up and twin engines turned into race bikes especially speedway outfits here in Australia......its a wonder there are still any matching bikes here at all........Years later all this scrap that was thrown under the bench for some poor unsuspecting bugger to repair.......now they are surfacing and stupid money being paid by folk who have great hopes but frankly no idea how costly and how much work it takes to fix these things.......Its all slowing down, so make the most of it I feel.

 

[erik]

To my mind it should be not unmetioned that a real good riders machine ,matching or not ,should be fitted with the mod. steering stem, the best brakes , Alton generator and maybe an electronic ignition. A so equipped motorcycles rides better than standard and should be more expesive to buy? Erik

 

[Phil Hogg]

Any Vincent, matching numbers or not is only as good as it's last rebuild. If you don't have history to back it up then pay accordingly but even good history is no absolute as there are so many variables in treatment and maintenance. I'd certainly be warry of a bike that has seen little or no use over a long period, it does them no good unless very carefully laid up. As Greg rightly says its all slowing down, we are at the end of it. I really hope I get to enjoy mine in retirement, but as to how long? If you have a mind to do it don't wait get the best you can afford, take it on the chin if you have to spend on it and ride the hell out it then you'll feel you got your moneys worth, wear it out the best you can because twenty years from now it won't matter anyway. Just my tuppence worth and as to matching numbers, there are probably better investments.

 

[vibrac]

Why would one have to have a matching numbers bike? I happen to own one but didn't know it was matching numbers at the time I bought it, and didn't know there was such a thing. There are plenty of machines without matching numbers that I fell confident will run just as well as the matching numbers bikes. The matching numbers bikes will have the same oil leaks, same clutch problems as one that has been assembled from parts. There are so many fabulous re-manufactured parts available today that this quarter couldn't give a hoot whether the numbers on a machine match or not Someone in the UK 'discovered' the number to my machine, built a 'clone' and passed it off as a matching numbers bike and the buyer found out about the ruse and I believe the case is now headed to court. Then again, I don't doubt the clone is just as good a machine as mine and it seems a shame a builder would break the law for a few dollars more. Of course I feel sorry for the buyer and have provided photos of my numbers to aid in the prosecution of the fool who scammed the buyer.

Absolutely agree I have just ordered a new crankcase and its going to have a new engine number from the VOC registrar, nowadays with all the available suspension upgrades it will obviously be bound for a non matching numbers Vincent frame
Incidentally when it comes to prices all the major auction results in the UK are on https://vincentspares.co.uk/bikesales/

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

The one question that has not been asked is: what do you think matching numbers actually means?