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Loctite of the ages

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Sakura

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Whilst I am sure that puller is ok normally, it strikes me if you changed the centre bolt to a larger fine thread with a ball bearing in the centre you could get a lot more pressure. Add a good heavy blow on the bolt and it should move.
 

oexing

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Two male extractor threads like here in the flywheel would be standard like in all classic BMWs. Don´t try to pull the flywheel just by tightening the two bolts after fabricating a fat bridge plate with through holes for said bolts. Your large plate is too soft for purpose. Place the nut on the crank end with a millimeter gap to the flywheel so it will not jump at you when it comes free with a bang of a good hammer blow. The fat bridge plate shall sit on the crank end or a spacer there when you torque down both bolts onto the bridge. Next find a decent hammer and hit the bridge in the middle so the shock will shift the flywheel with a jump . I don´t think you need any other ways to disassemble. What engine is it anyway ?

Vic
 

vibrac

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Oexing I have done all that in fact it was the strength of the two 5/16 cap screws that finally persuaded me to stop and move to using the 6 periferal studs at present I am beefing up disc and length of extractor thread and buyin a lot of propane canisters
Good call on BMW it's a post war Douglas engine horizontal flat twin it was a Douglas engine BMW copied way back in the early 20th that started BMW in motorcycles
 

greg brillus

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no different to breaking a large ball joint, Load up the flywheel with the puller using the two threads next to the center, and do up the center bolt nice and firm but not rip the threads out.........Heat it up as best you can. Then with a brass or alloy drift, and a good sized hammer, give the flywheel a few sharp blows towards the outer edge.......it will soon break free.
 

Bill Thomas

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I think Tim is overthinking it !, I know I do, The older I get I see more problems. Just started my L/ning for the first time this year, Hope to go for a short one, Shaking like a leaf !.
 

oexing

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I´d think the strength of the two 5/16 " bolts should do for putting a good load on the crank end for freeing the flywheel by a decent hammer blow on the fat bridge sitting on the crank end. No need to overstress the bolts, the hammer does it most likely . Vincenteers seem to be less used to that type of taper joints on big dynamo rotors, chain sprockets or clutch centers on taper gear shafts. Most times the puller alone will not do it, it is the hammer blow on preloaded components to crack the lot free with a bang. So keep a fixing nut or bolt in there loosely to protect yourself from getting hit by the flying part. A short rigid bridge plate fixed with the two bolts will not bend the flywheel like the large plate would.

Vic
 

oexing

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No success yet ? Below photos of an R 69 S flywheel and "puller" plate. The bolts are too long, not suitable as I´d need M 10x1 fine thread bolts for the wheel , must be somewhere I don´t remember right now. But please notice, you do NOT want a central thrust bolt in the puller plate as you cannot do a direct hit on the plate then. Instead get some steel spacer under the plate or have it sit directly on the end of the crank mainshaft and two short bolts for getting a decent load on the crank by screwing them down at max. torque. So in this preloaded condition hit the plate with a one pound steel hammer directly, no brass or alu between as this would dampen the shock from the steel hammer. I am quite sure it will do the trick.

Vic

P1080391.JPG

P1080396.JPG
 

vibrac

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I will try that before I restart with the plate all I have had between end and central bolt is a penny piece to protect the crank thread. I will try it with steel spacer no central bolt and the penny
The two puller bolts are 5/16 BSF it's nice to have another bike that uses my Vincent spanners
 

vibrac

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Well thats first time as per oexing's pictures. Unfortunately no luck, got the flywheel up to sizzel hot 2 screws as tight as possible on the steel packers a good few wacks even tried Bills idea from the backside of the wheel to give it a nudge... zilch. I will let it cool and repeat the process over the weekend if it still fails then it back to beefing up the plate (the center extractor will again be 3/4" Cycle thread it stripped last time with the rattle gun next time it will have an inch of supporting thread rather than 3/8")
NB I would like to beef up the two screws as suggested but I think that would literally screw the lifting mechanism behind
 

oexing

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Unbelievable, but then 5/16 is not very much for bolts to have a good load on the crank end. When finally success would you post photos ? Really these threads used for some trickery of lifting clutch plates ?? As said, the BMW wheel got M 10x1 mm fine thread but then it is a big 35mm taper, about 5-6 degrees per side. So maybe Douglas had less than that so in consequence disassembly may be a PITA ? When you look at the BMW crank, they had 35mm mainshafts front and rear, the sports S -types barrel roller bearing at the rear, 35 mm i.d. ball bearing at the front, only 50or 600 cc, but 7000 rpm for 42 hp R 69 S . The Vincent engines a mere 1 " mainshaft . . . .
Well, to keep to the topic, I think I´d go for next size threads for more crank end load and a good swing of a steel hammer again. Heat is no help here, same materials on both components, so no luck here.

Vic
 

Gary Gittleson

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I'm wondering if you should remove the penny. I realize that it's there to protect the end of the crank, but it also absorbs some of the shock. I think you should install the nut (I believe there is one, right?) It should be threaded on so it's just proud of the crank, to offer some protection to the crank threads but with enough threads engaged to transfer the shock.
 

Bill Thomas

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Maybe a bigger hammer, If only one hole at the back, Rotate 180 degrees, Hit one side then the other,
It's got to come off ?.
 

Bill Thomas

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Just thinking back to my Days at Austin Mini 's, With a good puller,
I think we took the starter off and gave it a big Thump through the starter hole,
What I am saying is maybe there is leverage by hitting a long way away from the taper ?,
But it has got to have a Ring to it, Proper metal ?.
 

oexing

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Had another idea to place a short hydraulic cylinder under the bridge plate . Bu then, the limit is the two bolts so bigger threads there would be required anyway. Plus, the cylinder is no good when a whack from a steel hammer is needed. No leverage will help here in a taper fit, just decent preload from two big bolts - and a well swung hammer on the bridge. Don´t think you´d deform the crank thread as long as the plate sits allright on the crank end. Keep the loose nut on the crank, of course, but maybe better not let the hammer blow go into the nut/thread, would scare me a bit. I do use nuts on threads elsewhere for protection but would not in this case I guess.

Vic
 

Sakura

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There is no doubt in my mind that this is an instance where heat is required in addition to mechanical forces. The problem is the heat needs to be expanding the flywheel quicker than the crankshaft. Propane or mapp probably isn't hot enough. Whilst I have had many difficult tapers to break shock and heat has ways succeeded in the end. I think you're going to have to use oxy acetylene. At a pinch you could probably use one of those carbon for attachments for an electric welder.
 

Bill Thomas

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Yes , If the heat is done quick before it has time to get to the shaft, It must help.
If your desperate !!, You could stand it on end for 24 hours and apply "Plus Gas ", Good Stuff.
 

greg brillus

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Breaking a taper with a straight "Pull" is not very effective, especially on a large taper area like you have there. You need to load up the joint with your central puller and "Shock the joint" with an offset hit.......Belt it with a small sledge type hammer directly on the wide rim just out from those 6 studs around the outside. When you break large automotive ball joints, you can load it up vertically on the pin and then belt the side of the taper to shock the joint free.......Don't be scared of it, just a few good solid blows and it will come free.
 
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