Misc: Everything Else Series 'D' Speedo Drive Threads Stripped

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
they do fit much better in the 26 tpi than the 1mm pitch.
I heard that Canadian gauntlet hit the ground with a 'thump' before I even looked at this, ahem, thread. OK, fellah, I'll see your tap, and raise you a traveling microscope.

The first photograph is a top-down view of the microscope, showing it has a precision-ground thread that moves the microscope objective sideways, with 1 mm divisions on the scale at the top, and 0.01 mm for the finest divisions on the rotary dial, so by interpolating between those it allows readings to be made to an accuracy of ~2 µm.

TravelingMicroscope01.jpg


The reason I decided to use this is some years ago I tried quite hard, but unsuccessfully, to find if there was a precision standard for pitch gauges. That is, if a pitch gauge is marked '26', does that mean it is an accurate 26.0 (or 26.00, or…) tpi, or could it be, say, 26.13? Or even as far off as 25.49? The answer is, we don't know. Or, rather, I don't know, and I couldn't find any reputable source that does know. Anyway, I carefully aligned my speedometer thread horizontally and along the axis of the crosshair in the eyepiece to eliminate any sine errors. The next photograph, taken before I had spent the time to align it, shows the view through the eyepiece.

TravelingMicroscope02.jpg


I avoided the first and last threads, carefully set the microscope on the crest near one end, recorded the position to the nearest ~2 µm, then moved the microscope through 10 turns and recorded that position. The difference, divided by 10, gives the pitch.

So, what did I find? Was the pitch 1.000 mm (25.400 tpi), or was it 26.000 tpi? The answer is, neither. Averaging several measurements of both the peaks and troughs, the average pitch over a length of 10 threads is 26.44 tpi.

How can this be? First, the difference is small enough, and the tolerances large enough, that the relatively few threads engaged by a nut of exactly 26.0 tpi wouldn't bind. Could the .44/26.44 = 1.7% increase in length that would result in that change in pitch be due to long-term change in dimension of this zinc-based casting? Modern references claim current materials have "excellent" dimensional stability, but I haven't looked into what that word means in practice, nor how the alloys cast 70 years ago behaved.
 

john998

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Hello, Here's one I made earlier. When I acquired it the thead had been shortened so I think I cut the thread a little longer and made up the adapter in brass. It's so long ago that the tread size is forgotten. John.
 

Attachments

  • 20220826_090402.jpg
    20220826_090402.jpg
    280.8 KB · Views: 23

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I heard that Canadian gauntlet hit the ground with a 'thump' before I even looked at this, ahem, thread. OK, fellah, I'll see your tap, and raise you a traveling microscope.

The first photograph is a top-down view of the microscope, showing it has a precision-ground thread that moves the microscope objective sideways, with 1 mm divisions on the scale at the top, and 0.01 mm for the finest divisions on the rotary dial, so by interpolating between those it allows readings to be made to an accuracy of ~2 µm.

View attachment 52777

The reason I decided to use this is some years ago I tried quite hard, but unsuccessfully, to find if there was a precision standard for pitch gauges. That is, if a pitch gauge is marked '26', does that mean it is an accurate 26.0 (or 26.00, or…) tpi, or could it be, say, 26.13? Or even as far off as 25.49? The answer is, we don't know. Or, rather, I don't know, and I couldn't find any reputable source that does know. Anyway, I carefully aligned my speedometer thread horizontally and along the axis of the crosshair in the eyepiece to eliminate any sine errors. The next photograph, taken before I had spent the time to align it, shows the view through the eyepiece.

View attachment 52778

I avoided the first and last threads, carefully set the microscope on the crest near one end, recorded the position to the nearest ~2 µm, then moved the microscope through 10 turns and recorded that position. The difference, divided by 10, gives the pitch.

So, what did I find? Was the pitch 1.000 mm (25.400 tpi), or was it 26.000 tpi? The answer is, neither. Averaging several measurements of both the peaks and troughs, the average pitch over a length of 10 threads is 26.44 tpi.

How can this be? First, the difference is small enough, and the tolerances large enough, that the relatively few threads engaged by a nut of exactly 26.0 tpi wouldn't bind. Could the .44/26.44 = 1.7% increase in length that would result in that change in pitch be due to long-term change in dimension of this zinc-based casting? Modern references claim current materials have "excellent" dimensional stability, but I haven't looked into what that word means in practice, nor how the alloys cast 70 years ago behaved.
I of course bow to MM's equipment and skills that can measure original or distorted threads to such a high degree of accuracy.

I am reminded of a Christmas many years ago. I used to buy for my Wife, American Artist Fred Stone's collector Equestrian plates, which were mostly of famous race horses, Secretariat, Seattle Slew etc, and would then go to a local art shop and purchase an appropriate plate holder for mounting it on the wall with the growing collection. This particular year I apparently was not "In the Christmas spirit" On entering the art store a rather brusque middle aged clerk asked if I could use some help to which I responded as to what I was seeking, they then started with a long list of questions about shape, wood grain, colour, type of glass etc. My response was, "I'm sorry, I am merely a man, I just need one that fits!" The sale was completed rather quickly.

I feel the same way about this thread. All it needs to do is fit. and to me 1/2 -26 bsc fits the cable nut perfectly!

Cheers

and Merry Christmas
 

john998

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Just been out to check, don't possess a 12mm by 1mm tap so I must have used 1/2 by 26,tpi, could be either cycle or brass as both are 26 tpi.
John
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
could be either cycle or brass as both are 26 tpi.
The threads look suspiciously rounded, which would make them British Standard Brass since those have a 55° "Whitworth" thread form, whereas CEI/BSC have a 60° 'V' form. As an early Christmas present for everyone, I'll inspect them under the microscope more carefully later today and will post what I find.

Of course, given the non-critical holding strength required of this fastener, any 26 tpi thread form would do perfectly well. Still, inquiring minds want to know what's what.
 
Top