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H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Rear Sprocket

Peter Holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
A good few years ago I purchased a standard chain width aluminium rear sprocket (or more likely Duralumin) which proved to excellent in all respects, I am fairly certain that I purchased this sprocket from Conway Motors, either from Chas or Colin, does anyone know of a current supplier of these, I think someone did mention the Chain and Sprocket guy that used to do the big events like Kempton Park etc. but sadly he is no longer with us.
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Never seen the nuts on the outside of a sprocket on one of these bikes before.........
When I built the bike I used the MO drawings to figure out where bits went. The MO1 sheet I used shows the sprocket nuts on the outside, seems to have worked out OK for over 50,000 miles so far. ;)
I've put a snip of the MO1 below;
mo1_snip.png
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Yes, my MO1 from 1954 is the same but you cannot do that with Shadow drums. In my 'D' Spares Book' from Jan 1961 MO1 has been replaced with MO 106 which seems to show the same problem alongside a drawing of a Prince ribbed drum. Oh Dear! Is it too late to ask for my money back?
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Yes, my MO1 from 1954 is the same but you cannot do that with Shadow drums. In my 'D' Spares Book' from Jan 1961 MO1 has been replaced with MO 106 which seems to show the same problem alongside a drawing of a Prince ribbed drum. Oh Dear! Is it too late to ask for my money back?
I had two rear wheels and steel brake drums in the pile of bits so the steel drums went on the back wheel and I never knew that the bolts had to go in from the outside if you used Shadow finned drums. I bought a front wheel off the then Series "A" man, Bob Stafford (Lovely man, much missed.) complete with Shadow drums and the spare rear wheel went to the current Series "A" man.
 

Marcus Bowden

VOC Hon. Overseas Representative
VOC Member
Whilst doing the NZ 2018 solo tour after their annual rally north island I went on a very rough detour before Christchurch nearly running out of fuel being in low gear so long and sprocket came loose, Russel Byfield came to the rescue and gave me a bed to sleep in and transport running me about getting drum built up (steel pressed type) re-machining to hold sprocket central, Allan bolts inserted from the inside of hub spring steel washers loctite and nylock nuts and they only have two to three mm clearance of the torque arms, problem with "A" steel drums is the radius from the flange making.
bananaman.
 
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Marcus Bowden

VOC Hon. Overseas Representative
VOC Member
It was only about twenty miles after Blenheim as I stopped at Ward or thereabouts as no fuel stations and at a coach, services got hold of a gardener and bought fuel off him. Then onto Kaikoura and fill right up and just leaving town passed a Police car parked and as I passed turned his blue lights on, so stopped left the bike ticking over while we talked and told him that they had been fitted for 15 years and had been all over Europe and never been pulled over, he took photos of me & bikes my WOF and tax sticker and never heard anything more, probably muttering about bloody limey's though.
All that east coast was lots of road works going on, but Russel Byfield took an inland route to Christchurch as we had left their Annual Rally (north island) together as he rode Old Harry ("A" Rap) to Wellington and we swapped back transport and I stayed with Andy Rackstraw (shadow clockmaker) Russel catching the ferry. I followed two dys later.
Bananaman.
 
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Peter Holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Going back to my original post, I was fitting a new rear tyre the other day in preparation for a full on riding season (hopefully). In doing so, and doing the obligatory clean, and re-grease of wheel bearings, I noticed on the clean rear sprocket "TALON 46", jackpot I thought, now I have all the information that I need to purchase a nice new sprocket, sadly it is not quite as easy as that, they apparently have no records of ever having manufactured them and suggest that I send them a drawing or sample.
How frustrating, I feel sure that one of our larger suppliers must have had a batch made, albeit a few years ago, I did give Ann Guy a call, but Ann doubts that it was Conways when Chas had the business, so I think that just leaves Colin or Ron, does that jog anyones memory, Talon say they need a part number to search their system.
 

Normski

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I’ll repeat what I said in post 2 - B &C express will make you a sprocket, they need the bore diameter of the central hole, the pcd of the boltholes and size and number of bolt holes. Mine 46 teeth 520 chain size in alloy (dural?) for a Grimeca hub was £51 including post.
www.BandCEpress.co.uk
 
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Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As I have said before, the alloy ones I have used (Sprocket Specialties (USA)) go very well for 10K miles. At 10K + 20 miles most of the teeth are shredded all over the rear rim!

I have had three sizes of 520 sprockets made in a steel alloy and nitride hardened. They will last a very long time but that comes at a pretty hefty price.
 

highbury731

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The rear chain guard is quite good on my Vincent Rapide but a little project I had in mind for quite a while was to devise a small guard to protect the bottom run of the chain. An Ariel Square Four I bought in 1969 had a small guard for the bottom chain run that thought was a good idea.
Quite a few modern bikes have plastic chain guards, they are light and don’t need painting. I had an offcut of black plastic drainpipe in the shed so I thought I would experiment with that. I cut off a short piece and warmed it with a hot air gun and then gradually squashed it in the vice between two lengths of wood to see how easily it would form. The first photograph shows how it turned out. Next, I cut a piece of pipe and slotted it lengthwise. I warmed it and when it became pliable I flattened it out. I found a piece of wood of a thickness the same as I wanted for the inside width of the guard and rounded one edge and then used this as a former to bend the hot plastic over to give me a “U” shaped piece. I cut this to the length required and used a piece of thin stainless steel sheet to attach it to torque arm of the right-hand rear brake. The other two photographs taken from the left and right-hand sides, show the guard fitted.
View attachment 39183

View attachment 39184
View attachment 39185
I am keen to make one for myself.
Am I right in thinking that this is a plastic downpipe for guttering, 70mm diameter? I have obtained an ample length of that.
How wide is your guard? The photos suggest a simple curved radius at the top. It looks to me as though your ss mount bracket attaches to two bolts unrelated to the torque arm mount and the FT134.
Paul
 

highbury731

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Police car parked and as I passed turned his blue lights on, so stopped left the bike ticking over while we talked and told him that they had been fitted for 15 years and had been all over Europe and never been pulled over, he took photos of me & bikes my WOF and tax sticker and never heard anything more, probably muttering about bloody limey's though.

Bananaman.
Kiwis (and Aussies) refer to English pople as 'poms'. Limey is a US term.
Paul
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I like that deformed pipe idea thanks Ed. I have a classic bike with no available chain guard and as the owners club does not have a spares supply like VOC the next batch "will be ordered soon" a plastic one would be a fine idea for the long wait
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
I am keen to make one for myself.
Am I right in thinking that this is a plastic downpipe for guttering, 70mm diameter? I have obtained an ample length of that.
How wide is your guard? The photos suggest a simple curved radius at the top. It looks to me as though your ss mount bracket attaches to two bolts unrelated to the torque arm mount and the FT134.
Paul
Dear Paul,
The pipe I used is an offcut of uPVC black plastic that is used for guttering and downpipes. Probably from Screwfix 68 mm diameter, under a fiver for 2.5 metres but it sounds as if you got what you need. My guard is approximately 35 mm wide, the same width as the steel upper guard. If it is pipe not gutter cut a piece a little longer than the length of the guard you want to make and then slit it longitudinaly. Warm the pipe hot air gun or oven if your wife is out, (bachelors can discount this) and when it is pliable all over pull it as flat as you can by hand, lay it on a flat piece of wood and put another flat piece of wood on top and press it down until it cools. (You could use flat metal but this is likely to take away the heat too quickly To make the "U" shaped section warm a straight line down the centre and fold it over a round section of a diameter a little under the inside width you want for your guard. (Wood is best if you have something suitable, e.g. broom handle) The actual size is not critical and you can easily trim the length and shape it with a hacksaw, file or sander.
I fixed it to the torque arm with a couple of small bolts and the bracket was just a piece of flat metal. You may need to tweak your piece of metal a little or use a few washers as packers to get the chain to run down the centre.
 

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
To Robert, indeed its abrasive wear and tear, only hardness helps in such a case.
As does the new beemer chain type with DLC coatings.

I use aluminium, and indeed after 7012 mls its totaly bust, not the chain though.

Now I turn them arround at 5-6000 MLS and the life is double.(idea came from someone here)

Yes I also turn around in my bed at night.....
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Vincent My recent batch of hard sprockets (in 520 chain 46, 47 and 48T only) are made from 4140 and salt bath nitride hardened at 1000 deg f so no distortion. they claim around RC65 10 - 13 thou deep.

But they are pricey and only useful for you and I doing high mileages -- well me not so much right now!

As for chains it seems I get maybe 15 - 18 K and then suddenly a few links get really sloppy as the seals fail. Pretty much more than 1 click or two on the adjusters and the chain is done.
 

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