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First start up.


vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
They had "The flight of the Phoenix" (original)on again on Freeview the other day and old James Stewart got that engine going again with the last cartridge of the Kaufman starter. Boy I have said it before that would be a great way to start a Vincent but the bandolier of blank cartridge cases over the shoulder might cause a few stop and searches :p
 

timetraveller

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VOC Member
Well I would say that is good advice and bad advice all rolled into one,
I was assuming that Erik was using a Dave Hills stand.
 

erik

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VOC Member
I have only a D. Hills stand on the comet,so far .But only the standart stands on the rapide.
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Reference my earlier post, and yes, I have started mine for many years by just giving it a good kick dropping the valve lifter lever about 1/2 way through the stroke. Recently, as I become old and feeble and having noticed that my HD hall effect ignition flicks the ammeter as the trigger fires I can easily see where the long and short gaps are, so now just roll it past the short gap and proceed as above. It often starts first kick, about 3/4 of the way down the stroke.

I agree about assuming things....

That tends to make an Ass out of u and me!
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
OK so whilst on the subject of stands, side ones in particular. I have used the front one for many years, but extended 3 inches, and they have never let me down, however they have always felt precarious, so followed someone's suggestion a few years ago and went to Evilbay and bought stand from a VFR800 Honda. Below is a picture of it installed. I have now bought several of these (20-25 US$ often shipping included) and fitted to several bikes, they take about 10 min's to install, depending on how anal you are. The front bolt is the existing one on the LH rear footrest plate which is 3/8 in, and the hole is 10mm. If you can live with that then just install using that bolt and do it up quite tight, lean the bike onto it "carefully and rotate the stand into the appropriate position and drill one more hole for the rear bolt. Put the bolt in. Job done. Record is 8 minutes, longest about 15..... 20190702_072919.jpg
 

Dominique2

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I had some problems in the past firing up my twins, hopefully François Guérin from Godet Team , show me how to do it, so I start it first kick or second most of time (cold or warm engine), I could explain for someone who wish
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There has been lots of excellent advice in this post! I noted what DJ noted that the KS is hitting the pipe. It would be a good idea to put the longer spline in and give it just enough to clear the pipe.

I do agree that it is best to ignore where the pistons are as the "good" technique works no matter where the flywheels ar sitting. However, if you were watching me start a twin you might think I am positioning the flywheels. Instead, I am prodding the engine to get the cams to push the valves open to ease the strain on the whole decompression system. Once the valves are open the decompression lever can be held to hold them there.

I know that we describe releasing the decompression lever at "half way down" but I think that is easier to do once you have gained a little confidence. From looking at the video, I might have said "release the lever when you are done with the kick." It seems that the tendency when practicing the technique is an "early release", not that I would know anything about that...I've just heard stories about it. But, if you get any compression on the way down, the kick will not start the engine. Don't waste the energy, start over.

I did not see "indexing" mentioned. Sometimes rotating the KS a tooth or more on the spline (counter clockwise) will let you use the full force of extending your leg rather than terminating the kick stroke when your leg is still bent. It is usually not an issue on the twins, but it can be on the much taller Eglis.

I was taught never to start a Vincent on a stand. I always followed that advice and, after doing it so often I found it very awkward to start one on a stand. Don't get me wrong, I don't want anyone tipping over at this point, but it is very hard on the rear stand the stock D stand. The Dave Hills stand would certainly be the one to use for starting. However, the other reason never to start on the stand is that in traffic at a stop light you will not have the luxury of deploying stands if your engine stalls. I suspect that "stand starting" has become more usual as the miles on the machines drop.

Finally, if you ride two up you need to practice what happens when you stall at traffic light. It should come as second nature. Also, if you ride in a group, once the others start their bikes you should be comfortable following the technique by feel only because you will not be able to hear anything as the others start up. If you ride at a rally or in a group, be prepared to start your stalled Vincent on a public road without the aid of hearing.

David
 

stu spalding

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Tim, I vaguely remember rumours that Slaters, before they did the Jota, were toying with the idea of a two litre Vincent with cartridge start. Cheers, Stu.
They had "The flight of the Phoenix" (original)on again on Freeview the other day and old James Stewart got that engine going again with the last cartridge of the Kaufman starter. Boy I have said it before that would be a great way to start a Vincent but the bandolier of blank cartridge cases over the shoulder might cause a few stop and searches :p
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Tim, I vaguely remember rumours that Slaters, before they did the Jota, were toying with the idea of a two litre Vincent with cartridge start. Cheers, Stu.
I see Roger from time to time, I'll have to ask him......

He told me he was trying to talk Laverda into making Vincent engines when they said why don't you try this and gave him a ride on a twin, by the time they said no to the idea if Vincent engines, they showed him a triple.....
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Regarding Coffman starters you may like the modern video below, starting a Grumman Wildcat with some of the last remaining cartridges. Well, I´d love to play explosives but in harsh reality you will have big troubles today to find usable cartridges , no longer in production. Apart from that I´d get a visit from the Gestapo for possession of explosives unauthorized.

Vic
Youtube Wildcat
Wildcat start
 

ClassicBiker

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Regarding Coffman starters you may like the modern video below, starting a Grumman Wildcat with some of the last remaining cartridges. Well, I´d love to play explosives but in harsh reality you will have big troubles today to find usable cartridges , no longer in production. Apart from that I´d get a visit from the Gestapo for possession of explosives unauthorized.

Vic
Youtube Wildcat
Wildcat start
You biggest problem would be finding the new components to reload. Propellant is easy to come by, order that over the internet and have it delivered, there are 10 choices for shotgun alone on the Brownells page. The video suggested they were 4 gauge, I couldn't find any crimping dies that size, 10 gauge was the largest. The primers are electric not percussion, but if you're making your own that really isn't a problem.
Just tell people it backfires a lot before it starts.
Steven
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
The Kofmann type cartridge starter would quickly destroy your nicely aligned flywheels after about 2 starts, the action once fired is extremely aggressive. I have found the best way to start a twin on either the rear or a Hills, "D" type stand is from the right side of the bike using your right leg. Works well and does not put all your weight on the machine........It's nice to be different.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Greg's starting technique would not work for those of us who are short in the leg, and possibly past our first youthful prime.
 

Bill Thomas

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VOC Member
The Kofmann type cartridge starter would quickly destroy your nicely aligned flywheels after about 2 starts, the action once fired is extremely aggressive. I have found the best way to start a twin on either the rear or a Hills, "D" type stand is from the right side of the bike using your right leg. Works well and does not put all your weight on the machine........It's nice to be different.
I do it your way, If I have trouble, As I have said , I had a real bad one the other day, Put my left knee on the saddle, To put my full 200lb down on it to spin it as fast as I could, My Hips and Knees , Are not as good as a few years ago !. Cheers Bill.
 

erik

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VOC Member
i started my Rapide last evening as recommendet.With the bike on ist wheels and Standing over the bike I tried it several times to get pratice into the technic. And !!!! it works.Thank you for the lesson.Erik
 

BigEd

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
i started my Rapide last evening as recommendet.With the bike on ist wheels and Standing over the bike I tried it several times to get pratice into the technic. And !!!! it works.Thank you for the lesson.Erik
We are never too old to learn. When I was a school teacher I learned something every day .... from the children.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Eric, If you weigh 242 lb, You must have frightened it in to starting :) .
I remember Dear old Bill Telfer, West London Section, A Vin' Dare not start when he had a go !.
Mind the Extra Power of the Twin !, Have Fun, Bill.
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
A Vincent twin at 8 to 1, 9 to 1 or even 10.5 to one is a pretty easy engine to roll over.
It seems that the design of the kickstart mechanism is one the many things that one or both Phil's got right.
Heavy flywheels, compression release and a kicker that is located right where it should be ( for me, anyway) all help.
The 1360 with 10.8 to 1 Cr, very high lift cams and big fat squish bands is a different animal.
I'm thinking of donning a rock filled Trapper Nelson for that one!
Attached photo is a Grade 8 3/8" pivot bolt from the kickstart for that bike. I wonder what the cartilage in my right knee looks like?

GlenIMG_20180530_100852.jpg
 

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