ET: Engine (Twin) ET38 Valve Circlip Install Tool, Collet Types and Pushrod Info

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vibrac

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Just fitted two clips on valve stems never gave it great thought before
1. find clip gap
2 position clip at about 30 degrees to valve top with gap (in the air) hold in place with thumb
3 take medium screwdriver take flat side push and 'peel' clip downwards moving slightly round the valve
4 clip now on stem push down with end of blade to groove

Both took about as long each as reading this.
 

Cyborg

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Just fitted two clips on valve stems never gave it great thought before
1. find clip gap
2 position clip at about 30 degrees to valve top with gap (in the air) hold in place with thumb
3 take medium screwdriver take flat side push and 'peel' clip downwards moving slightly round the valve
4 clip now on stem push down with end of blade to groove

Both took about as long each as reading this.
Again, the original post mentions the thumb installation method and you already stated that is what you prefer. I still think the tool still has some value for those with less developed thumbs. I asked you before… should I not have posed a photo of the tool? Now I’m repeating myself too.
At least with the tool, there is less chance of distorting or stretching the clip because it goes straight on. It doesn’t mean you can’t get one on without stretching it, but I would prefer not to take a chance. Better that the clip is as snug as possible in the groove especially at high rpm?
I haven’t actually read the forum rules, but suspect there is something in there that prevents me from posting my closing sentence.
 

Vincent Brake

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Just fitted two clips on valve stems never gave it great thought before
1. find clip gap
2 position clip at about 30 degrees to valve top with gap (in the air) hold in place with thumb
3 take medium screwdriver take flat side push and 'peel' clip downwards moving slightly round the valve
4 clip now on stem push down with end of blade to groove

Both took about as long each as reading this.
You do it that often Tim?
 

oexing

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Martensitic "stainless" is in fact carbon/chrome steel like some types I posted above. They have same expansion like silver steel etc. , but we were looking for something with higher expansion factors. For getting an idea I did a quick calculation:
Pushrod length 150 mm roughly, working temperature my guess 100 degrees ?
So this gives 0.20 mm expansion at ss factor 16, not 18 as with brass.
The cylinder plus head is alu, working temperature maybe 150 degrees ?? So expansion is 0.47 mm, so when setting nil cold you get extra valve clearance of 0.27 mm when hot - and you cannot do anything about it when stuck with ss. Even standard carbon steel is only 0.05 mm less expansion, so no big plus for stainless at all.
Unfortunately the common cams in Vincents never got effective quieting ramps for taking care of some more valve clearance and obviously drivers seem to be allright with the typical rattly timing side. And when you see that you cannot avoid 0.25 mm clearance in hot engine , in consequence the minimal quieting ramps don´t get much use at all - clatter.
For better matching heat growth of cylinder and pushrods you want alu but I don´t see a safe mod with original sizes like the solid steel types. Sooo, Vincenteers , look over your confined box and bin your belief that pushrods HAVE to be fed through rocker threads - isn´t so. When you manage to see more clearly you´ll find a lot more options for absolutely safe and durable mods like I posted in my photos : Alu tubes 10x2 mm plus hardened ball ends , for the pessimists get 10x1 mm stainless tube plus end caps. But no reduction of clatter with ss then. Yes, 10 mm will have not much clearance in the shroud at the lower end as there is a 1 mm faulty counterbore offset to match the follower cup. Either rectify this offset with suitable offset o-ring adapter to shift the shrouds to where they should have been from the start. Or fabricate longer end caps for the follower end of pushrod with smaller diameter. In the photo below the 3rd from left is a BMW /5 type with reduced diameter pressed into alu tube, no shifting needed then -would be only second choice for me.
Texts from old motor magazines about the super stainless steel in pushrods are just journalists talk, with no technical proof : The e-modulus (Young modulus??) is roughly same for all steel types and alu is one third of steel. That is why alu tubes want 2mm wall thickness to fight bending loads. Still my alu tubes plus steel ends are 10 grams less than standard - and come with about the same heat expansion - no better choices I can see so far.
I see another flaw with pushrod ends being same both ends- means that sitting in the follower cup gets decent oil collected, not so when the ball on the rocker side points UP into the adjuster cup. Pushrods no. 1 and 2 from left are alu Horex, upper end with the cup in the adjuster so all is well here ! I would not want to run "work hardening" stainless in poorly lubed high load applications. I have not come across that type of pushrods supposedly made from ss , my scrap rods are all very rusty so the ball ends will have been torch hardened I believe. Believe - I am not very religious , even less so with religions circulating in lots of different matters, technical or not. I want facts instead that can be checked and verified by scientific ways,not hearsay.

Vic

P1040563.JPG
 

litnman

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My BSA A10 has tubular alloy pushrods with hardened steel inserts. Diameter is .25.
Also have a solid alloy set of Vincent type pushrods that came with the Lightning pile. I have no information on the history. They have a ringing sound to them that indicate they are of a high grade alloy. Doesn't appear they have ever been used.

Screen Shot 2022-01-30 at 10.41.18 PM.png
 

Flo

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My remark concerning martensitic stainless steelwas aimed at the discussion about potential an real hardness achievable with respective materials.
Now for the pushrods the calculations given are only taking cylinder muff and head into account vs pushrod at least the valve stem nedds to be included when generating actual numbers. The loading of the pushrod is Euler buckling case II, hence only Young's modulus and geometry of the pushrod are decisive! The yield strength simply decides whether plastification sets in during or after buckling. The stiffness of the pushrod limits the valve acceleration achievable by the cam profile. The examples given are therefore of limited pertinence. This shows the celebrated BMW 336° cam where it was necessary to go to extreme duration (336°) and overlap (136°) in order to make do with limited acceleration.
Besides the BMW /5 was a notorious rattler (even if still not challenging come Vincent twins). I have it on first hand authority the Porsche engineering service, in a study for BMW, identified a first order bending 'eigenform' of the pushrods as the culprit.
My conclusion would be thin walled stainless tubing for the pushrods as a good solution. Dimension of 9 x 1 mm would give a 60% increase in critical buckling load and ca. 40% less mass, while 10 x 2 mm Aluminium helps load capacity tu the tune of 11.4% and reduces mass by just under 30% (both compared to the origiginal solid stainless rod). If one would accept the additional complication of 10mm diameter with thin walled steel (wall thickness 0.5) load capacity would be improved by 32% while mass would reduced by over 60%.
 

timetraveller

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I have a question. In the above consideration of relative expansion between aluminium alloys and steel alloys does the fact that the cylinders and cylinder heads of Vincents are constrained by four steel studs each make a difference? Of course the studs will expand with temperature and presumably the forces of expansion and combustion but will the full movement as calculated by Vic actually occur?
 

Vincent Brake

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Lest not forget that E modulus is also in effect, during dynamic movements, Meaning the pushrod becomes shorter during loads.
Alu would do this 3x more as steel.

And to Vic:
A rattling timing side in a vinnie is due to big gear play in the train.
Specially with the V twin.
I use Hardened steel pushrods.
At 0.0mm cold.
All my vinnies are Quiet. As I grind in the train, with diamond paste. Cold at 0.0 play.
And still So for about 70.000km.
Than again I run MK1 megacyle.
At high revs, its short of breath. I dont think I do over 4500rpm.
But boy oh boy the low tork.
Nearlylike a Tractor.
 

Vincent Brake

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I have a question. In the above consideration of relative expansion between aluminium alloys and steel alloys does the fact that the cylinders and cylinder heads of Vincents are constrained by four steel studs each make a difference? Of course the studs will expand with temperature and presumably the forces of expansion and combustion but will the full movement as calculated by Vic actually occur?
I guess not by so much, stress on studs become higher.
But it has to go somewhere i guess....
 
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