ET: Engine (Twin) ET38 Valve Circlip Install Tool, Collet Types and Pushrod Info

[Cyborg]

An ET38 Geezus clip installer. Some folks just install them with their thumbs, but I could never figure out how one builds up their thumb strength to that degree….plus most Vincent owners seem to have shops littered with these clips.

Tool consists of a chuck, a piece of 5/16 stock (part A) with a bullnose on one end and a concave taper (to match the taper on the end of the valve) on the other end. Another piece of stock (part B) with a 5/16 hole bored through it. Part B is used to push the ET38 clip onto part A. Part A is held against the end of the valve and then part B is used to push the clip onto the valve. Wish I had figured this out years ago….

 

[oexing]

I failed to see the brilliance of the idea of having an extra wire circlip on the valve stem. Why did they not just have the standard split collets like elsewhere, easier to handle I´d think ? That is why I did not copy this nuisance and did the 3 groove stems with nongripping split collets like on quality brands since decades.
Would it be a worthwhile improvement for future production of valves, collets plus spring cups to go with them ?

Vic

 

[bmetcalf]

But, the Concours judges!!!!

 

[greg brillus]

Vic is correct but only on your own engines, not on countless customers bikes........too time consuming and an extra cost that folk dont' want to bare.

 

[oexing]

Would that be desirable for Maughams or Conways to offer the improved simplified split collet no wire set ? Certainly the multigroove precision types wuld be optimum as valves can rotate within collets. But the common single groove version is better than original. Collets can be had from anywhere , just the spring caps got to have the right taper for them.

Vic

I did a new set of valves plus leadfree exhaust seats for our next 2.3 l V 6 Ford Capri , no discussions, all three groove types, like on all of our bikes.

 

[vibrac]

Nothing wrong with a circlip on the valve a position and a thumb a little pressure and job is done. Hint: always order three for two clips.
As for grooved collets they had those on my T35 Douglas in lockdown when I needed to change the valve springs. First I broke my valve compressor, then I tried it with a beam compressor with the legs welded up, It bent. Then I tried a scaffold bar with the valve & spring in a big vice close to shattering the vice. Finally I mounted a 8 ton bottle jack centralised through the valve with two long rods up from my milling table to a thick steel bar and spacer over the valve spring head and when the bar started to bend hit it hard with a large hammer and the collets finally came loose. nothing appeared to be amiss with the components except they had been put on by the McCandless Bros in NI about 60 years ago...

 

[oexing]

Well then, in cases like this it is not a compliment to British Engineering I´d say. Wrong taper angle , has to be 6 degrees at least, not a Morse taper here. Some component was not suitable to the job. Millions of cars have been made and still are with same collets . You think mechanics run same troubles like you had when doing valve jobs on them ? I try to remember an egine with same wire circlips like on Vincents - but cannot find any . There are many different ways for securing a spring cup to the valve stem since the poppet valve engines were invented. Some not overly brilliant, some too complicated for wide use. Think about the A Rapide assembly - silly idea . After a few decades with engines my choice are the 2 or 3 groove precision collets with contact on split faces so valves can turn within the spring cup for reliable valve sealing .
Shoving the wire circlip into the groove is the easy job, less so when trying to take it out later ? Again, why this idea - to be different ?

Vic

 

[Cyborg]

Nothing wrong with a circlip on the valve a position and a thumb a little pressure and job is done. Hint: always order three for two clips.
As for grooved collets they had those on my T35 Douglas in lockdown when I needed to change the valve springs. First I broke my valve compressor, then I tried it with a beam compressor with the legs welded up, It bent. Then I tried a scaffold bar with the valve & spring in a big vice close to shattering the vice. Finally I mounted a 8 ton bottle jack centralised through the valve with two long rods up from my milling table to a thick steel bar and spacer over the valve spring head and when the bar started to bend hit it hard with a large hammer and the collets finally came loose. nothing appeared to be amiss with the components except they had been put on by the McCandless Bros in NI about 60 years ago...

Well I did acknowledge that some folk install them with their thumbs. Just thought there might be folks out there with thumbs that aren’t quite as well developed as yours.

 

[Cyborg]

Well then, in cases like this it is not a compliment to British Engineering I´d say. Wrong taper angle , has to be 6 degrees at least, not a Morse taper here. Some component was not suitable to the job. Millions of cars have been made and still are with same collets . You think mechanics run same troubles like you had when doing valve jobs on them ? I try to remember an egine with same wire circlips like on Vincents - but cannot find any . There are many different ways for securing a spring cup to the valve stem since the poppet valve engines were invented. Some not overly brilliant, some too complicated for wide use. Think about the A Rapide assembly - silly idea . After a few decades with engines my choice are the 2 or 3 groove precision collets with contact on split faces so valves can turn within the spring cup for reliable valve sealing .
Shoving the wire circlip into the groove is the easy job, less so when trying to take it out later ? Again, why this idea - to be different ?

Vic

It isn’t the best design, especially for high rpm, but how many Vincents actually dropped their valves strictly because of that design? Yes some dropped valves for other reasons, but if the clip is properly installed (and not bent during installation) how much of an issue is it for a street bike? If I was building an engine that would be thrashed, then yes…pretty much everything in the valve train needs modification.
As I’ve said before, you do nice work, but sometimes wonder if your finished product will sound and feel anything like a Vincent. I suppose one could say design wise, everything on a Vincent is shite. It is what it is… designed long ago…it’s quirks and idiosyncrasies are what give it personality and character.
Should I have refrained from posting a photo of the tool because I’m endorsing the use of the clip?
Not sure what it all has to do with a tool thread….

 

[Bill Thomas]

I have thrashed standard valves, If your thumb nails are no good , I use a very fine
Screw driver end, There is a lot on Vincents that need attention ,
But I think this is good enough.
Just Del's thoughts, .