E5 Fuel
- Thread starter Graham Hudson
- Start date
Hi, Kerry mentions Avgas LL. At my Local airport there are a few rules you must follow. It must be in an Avgas labelled metal can with an aircraft registration. You need to wear a hi-vis jacket on the airport. Be prepared to wait if there are aircraft refuelling. Expect to pay at least 150% more than Esso best. Note it is supposed to be used in planes so never mention it may be used in a vehicle. I understand this is something to do with the Tax.
The lead content is actually higher than the old 100 octane and I think it comes out at about 108 octane. I use 50/50 with Esso best in my racer but may try just Esso at Prescott this year.
roy the racer
The lead content is actually higher than the old 100 octane and I think it comes out at about 108 octane. I use 50/50 with Esso best in my racer but may try just Esso at Prescott this year.
roy the racer
Your richness experience is like mine. The spark plugs I use are generally one grade hotter than original spec in different bike makes. That may be the fuel, or maybe because we all go so slowly nowadays. I've also leaned out the carbs on my BMW 1956 R50 by dropping the needles all the way because they turned sooty last year.
The mystery is that, chemical science says that the ethanol in the fuel should make the engines run leaner (whether at 5 or 10 %) , but that is not my experience.
My 70s Ducatis killed plugs all the time. I never went out without a spare pair and a plug spanner. Speculating wildly, I think that modern petrol/gasoline may contain a heavy fraction of hydrocarbon that won't burn quick enough in our old engines and that's what's ending up stuck to our plugs. Modern engines are running at much higher CR - around 12.6:1 compression ratio with fantastic spark voltage so we know they can eat it.
The gasoline we buy is a complete mystery mix and there's no transparency about its formulation, except for the ethanol value and winter/summer volatility. Basically, it is not formulated for our engines and we are lucky that they run on it at all. My view is that we have to find a way to live with it by tuning, ignition, plugs and engine set up.
I've tried Aspen chainsaw fuel (and Stihl market one too) and they seem fine but they are super expensive, I tend to keep them for the last ride of the autumn, (if I remember), because they are claimed not to degrade in power tools kept in sheds outside all through Scandinavian or Canadian winters.
The mystery is that, chemical science says that the ethanol in the fuel should make the engines run leaner (whether at 5 or 10 %) , but that is not my experience.
My 70s Ducatis killed plugs all the time. I never went out without a spare pair and a plug spanner. Speculating wildly, I think that modern petrol/gasoline may contain a heavy fraction of hydrocarbon that won't burn quick enough in our old engines and that's what's ending up stuck to our plugs. Modern engines are running at much higher CR - around 12.6:1 compression ratio with fantastic spark voltage so we know they can eat it.
The gasoline we buy is a complete mystery mix and there's no transparency about its formulation, except for the ethanol value and winter/summer volatility. Basically, it is not formulated for our engines and we are lucky that they run on it at all. My view is that we have to find a way to live with it by tuning, ignition, plugs and engine set up.
I've tried Aspen chainsaw fuel (and Stihl market one too) and they seem fine but they are super expensive, I tend to keep them for the last ride of the autumn, (if I remember), because they are claimed not to degrade in power tools kept in sheds outside all through Scandinavian or Canadian winters.
The old Vincent expert that I bought my Prince from also owned 4 small aircraft and only used Afgas LL which yes has plenty of lead in it, he would fill up a big 25l plastic tub or two and it keeps for years, but the point I would like to make, it ran far better on Afgas than any of our horrible modern petrol, I now just use Esso E5, runs ok but not as good as Afgas, a friend just changed from E10 to E5 and his Vincent run's better on it.
Why would anyone use E10, On a Vincent, We were told not too ?,
In fact people are now saying our cars would be better using E5, Even though it costs more ?,
Better mpg ?, Must admit my 2006 Honda CRV is bad mpg on E10,
It even stalled the other day !, While ticking over at a friends house,
And it's Fuel Injected !, Never done that before.
Maybe I should by an Electric Car
, Only Joking.
In fact people are now saying our cars would be better using E5, Even though it costs more ?,
Better mpg ?, Must admit my 2006 Honda CRV is bad mpg on E10,
It even stalled the other day !, While ticking over at a friends house,
And it's Fuel Injected !, Never done that before.
Maybe I should by an Electric Car
, Only Joking.
I agree Bill, so very silly, my friend filled it last year with E10, got bike out last week, it started, coughed, missed, spitted, I said use 'ESSO E5' please, now much better, the drained old petrol is now in my cheap garden Tractor. I only use E5 in my car too, hope it keeps being available, at least I am supporting it.
I use av gas when storing my bikes over the winter filled to the neck.
They start first kick lovely.
Then as the season goes when traveling super unleaded with millers ethanol killer added.
When traveling in Scotland got stuck with the E10 twin was notably harder on the start up.
This was with the additive, also go easy on the additives as they can separate when stored in the tank sinking and causing fouling of the carbs never mind the plugs.
You can buy high octane elf race fuel from some bike shops racing suppliers by the drum has lead and is very nice similar to ac gas.
My local wee airport is getting harder to buy av gas from they have gone safety mad.
Al
They start first kick lovely.
Then as the season goes when traveling super unleaded with millers ethanol killer added.
When traveling in Scotland got stuck with the E10 twin was notably harder on the start up.
This was with the additive, also go easy on the additives as they can separate when stored in the tank sinking and causing fouling of the carbs never mind the plugs.
You can buy high octane elf race fuel from some bike shops racing suppliers by the drum has lead and is very nice similar to ac gas.
My local wee airport is getting harder to buy av gas from they have gone safety mad.
Al
You can certainly waist a lot of money for avgas if you feel the need for this stuff. But you don´t need it really in Vincents with non-cast iron heads . For iron heads there is the problem of seat wear with unleaded , unless you do the seat ring mod like I did on the Ford heads for every day use. In sick aviation engines with extreme cylinder capacities of 1.6 l per pot you get troubles with pinking so you have to get 100 octane and more for fighting knocking at high loads. So in Vincents 100 octane should be allright even in racers unless you run ridiculous race engines designed for methanol fuel - which is alcohol as well ! As to avgas, in Rotax aviation engines these are designed for unleaded auto fuel , having smaller cylinder bores and higher revs with reduction gears for props. BUT when you run them on leaded avgas it is recommended for oil changes twice as often than with auto unleaded. So that may tell you something ! Also with avgas, pilots with American engines typically face troubles with lead blocked spark plugs or sticking valves in guides. So better use leadfree when lead is no real necessity.
Blaming alcohol for black spark plugs is barking up the wrong tree. Modern cars on unleaded don´t have black plugs , even our old Ford can have white plugs with lean/ correct mixture. So better care for your carbs and replace worn out jets and finally get carburation right - after decades running the classics overly rich like with most old iron. And yes, get spark plugs with that grade that suits YOUR typical ride and not what´s written in old books.
Yes, E 5 or E10 can get stale after months in tank storage so this may lead to poor starting in spring. And yes, avgas can help. The cheaper way is to empty the tank in autumn , put the fuel in your car for use there and just have fresh fuel in spring - and be happy ever after.
Vic
Blaming alcohol for black spark plugs is barking up the wrong tree. Modern cars on unleaded don´t have black plugs , even our old Ford can have white plugs with lean/ correct mixture. So better care for your carbs and replace worn out jets and finally get carburation right - after decades running the classics overly rich like with most old iron. And yes, get spark plugs with that grade that suits YOUR typical ride and not what´s written in old books.
Yes, E 5 or E10 can get stale after months in tank storage so this may lead to poor starting in spring. And yes, avgas can help. The cheaper way is to empty the tank in autumn , put the fuel in your car for use there and just have fresh fuel in spring - and be happy ever after.
Vic