• Welcome to the website of the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club.

    Should you have any questions relating to the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club, or Vincent H.R.D. motorcycles in general, please contact Graham Smith, Hon. Editor and Webmaster by calling 07977 001 025 or please CLICK HERE.

    You are unrecognised, and therefore, only have VERY restricted access to the many features of this website.

    If you have previously registered to use this forum, you should log in now. CLICK HERE.

    If you have never registered to use this website before, please CLICK HERE.

ET: Engine (Twin) 2BA Countersunk Screws (406)

ossie

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Is there any trace of gear crunch when changing from neutral to first? If yes it is definitely the clutch
one 2ba countersunk screw wasn,t happy staying where he was all sorted now thanks for all your replies.OSSIE
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0001.JPG
    IMG_0001.JPG
    304.2 KB · Views: 18
  • IMG_0003.JPG
    IMG_0003.JPG
    522 KB · Views: 18
  • IMG_0004.JPG
    IMG_0004.JPG
    97.8 KB · Views: 18

ossie

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Vic , They are bad enough to get on and off normal,
I use Allen headed screws,
And now put gaffer tape across the screw heads, As told by Marcus !.
i have tried allen countersunk type but the hex is too small and round off easily went back to slotted version.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Supposedly these countersunk screws are bolted down to some stop, no ? I would not trust any adhesive tape on heads to last long, in heat and some oily mist possibly. As could be seen you need some saftey means to prevent loose screws from unwinding completely once they are no longer tight. So why not use MILD Loctite like the 221 or 222 , same strength like nylocs, no other types as you´d be challenged to undo them. Common slotted type countersink might be best here unless you find some with Torx - unlikely with that imperial thread.
For other places I was considering countersink screws but with hex head, own production, reasonably flat hex head for decent spanners. But then, no imperial threads for me when I can help it, so Torx my choice.

Vic
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Vic, These screws are Soo Tiny, They lock down via the outer plate to small metal tubes that are inside the springs,
I got a bag full many years ago, Somebody in West London Section,
I think they are B.A. ?. 9 Of them !,
The photo shows them next to a 5 P / 5 cents coin.
I see you are going Multiplate ?,
I used a home made Multi for Racing, Made the gear change much quicker and safer,
But too heavy for me on the road.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210606_143442.jpg
    IMG_20210606_143442.jpg
    147.3 KB · Views: 19

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
These Loctite 221 or 222 are great for the countersunk screws, also great for locking fuel taps in the tank when you want certain orientation, difficult with typical seals. Grub screws will be sealed with same Loctites, no problem to undo. I use them a lot, only rarely normal strength for external screws, well, it depends and you have to think a bit before applying.
Yes, multiplate clutch, but I will try to have low force springs there, ATF in primary and semi-dry clutch, only a few holes into clutch cover for oil mist. I´ll see, takes till next year I guess.

Vic
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have felt some of the new Multi's, And they are very light,
The plates were not around in my day, The only thing is the lift was made for only one plate,
They have modified the lift lever, But I haven't tried one yet,
Don't need it with the standard clutch,
Trouble is my stuff is old and worn out, Must have been better when New ?.
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Vic, These screws are Soo Tiny, They lock down via the outer plate to small metal tubes that are inside the springs,
I got a bag full many years ago, Somebody in West London Section,
I think they are B.A. ?. 9 Of them !,
The photo shows them next to a 5 P / 5 cents coin.
I got some black, 2BA, Countersunk hexagon head Allen screws this week. They were on eBay sold by "elmhousecollector".
Two lengths available, 1.25" and 1.5", so they need to be shortened before fitting, £5.00 for a pack of 10, including postage. I have some stainless ones fitted at present and got these for spares as this kind of thing seems to be increasingly hard to find.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There was a good tip on the Forum ! , Where else ??? :D ,
Keep a pair of long screws to start to pull the springs together,
Then swop them out after a few threads.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Keep three long studs to go between the springs and pull the plate down with a box spanner on the nuts. (Long 2BA screws with nuts are sold for mounting trailer sockets.) Once the plate is snug 3/4 long Allen screws can be easily screwed in before replacing the studs with the final Allen screws.
My countersunk Allen screws require a 3/32 Allen key but Stu Spalding recommended using raised countersunk screws which apparently use the next size up. I have never managed to find these for sale.
Having had to attack the Knight's clutch this week, I found the appropriate tools were not in the bike's tool kit. This led me to restock with ebay items 402241134899, 373190540552, 203145518010. This provides the three sizes of Allen key needed for clutch cover, primary chain case/timing chest and spring plate as well as long screws with nuts and a lifetimes supply of spare screws. All these ebay purchases arrived within two days.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The 3/32 Allen key was flexing when each of the nine screws released with a crack. I doubt that they would have released if loctite had been used. The amount of slot available in a countersunk hole for use with a standard flat screwdriver would have been hard pressed to undo screws that tight without rounding out. Similarly had they been std slotted screws, loctited in because the flat screwdriver wouldn’t tighten them enough, I'd expect them to be permanent.
The factory didn’t find the need for spring washers, shakeproof washers or loctite. If I find that something won’t stay done up I may resort to spring washers or nylocks but not a chemical lock.

The knobs holding D panels are knurled, so tightened with fingers. I'll own up to cheating and tightening while wearing riding gloves but would new owners glue them in?
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
So you believe in nylocs but have never tried Loctite 221 or 222 ? I have never seen nyloc screws so my advice on these countersunk screws would be 221 as this is no harder to undo than a nyloc in another place. So while you most likely won´t find Torx BA screws and countersunk Allen screws have a small hex keys only I´d rather have common slotted screws, more torque from these.

Vic
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Vic, The standard screw has always been a pain,
If you think the head is countersunk, There is no support for the slot at each end !,
So easy to round off, Plus we used to pin pop the plate into the screw slot,
So it wouldn't come loose, But we have all seen that one would !.
Cheers Bill.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There are big screwdrivers and small screwdrivers and one that's the right size and that's the one they used at the factory back in the 50's
If I can remember back to when I had a standard clutch I think I used alan head screws cut to length
 

MarBl

Website User
VOC Member
I would like to support Vics recommendation for 221 and 222, but because I am lazy, I use the easier to apply Loctite 248 stick on all screws smaller than M5 instead. They say its medium strength but in comparison to the fluids, I found it to be closer to low-strength and rather easy to unscrew if necessary, much easier than with the fluid 243.
Of course that doesn't give you any guarantee, that a screw may not still eventually come loose, especially problematic ones like the aforementioned clutch screws. But it provides some extra safety. And of course you always need to clean the threads first.
There is also another, oftentimes overlooked advantage, which I only realized after using the stuff for some years. Loctite does an excellent sealing job, keeping moisture out of the threads, and I never found any corrosion on screws secured that way, especially not on otherwise problematic connections between different alloys.
 
Last edited:

Can't Find What You Need?

Buyer Beware: Fake or Real?

The Mighty Garage Videos

List of Forum Categories

Top