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What have I done???

Shawn Lamb

New Website User
Non-VOC Member
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Dreams of Ogri.. Or I just purchased this "white elephant"!!

Coming home (back to England) is this Vincent. I hope to open these pics up to anyone who can recommend sources for missing parts and sources of information. The tank is around but seat and obviously a lot of other bits are AWOL.

I am open to ideas (keep it a racer?) to recommendations on available services (feel free to solicit). Thougths on the "correct" rear hub? This is a triumph conical unit. Seat ideas.. Speculate on history?

Engine condition is unknown. Thanks to the club, I have been told it is a 48 Rapide. Previous owner remembers taking it to Lightning specs years ago. Should I de-tune for the road? Should I take the horrible black paint off or repaint satin after rebuild? This procedure is out of my skillset.

Comments/contact are welcome.

Bike is expected to be in the UK in late April early May.
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I would imagine you had an idea of where you wanted to go when you decided to buy this project. Now you have to decide on whether you have realistic & realisable goals. Before you lift a finger or spend another penny you need to know exactly what you have got. There are probably some people not too far away from where you live who can give you an unbiased report BUT it will be you who has to make the final decision(s). Whichever road you go down it won't be cheap, just less or more expensive.... The Egli can be as individual as you. Good luck.
This is Mr Egli with one of his creations.
 

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Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Wow !! What a find !! What a project !! My option would be to get it on the road as a Cafe racer !! Any carbs with it ? First thing you need to do is verify the spec and condition of the engine , I would not be inclined to rely on the owners version !! Parts won't be an issue , almost everything is available to the extent of having a choice on most parts. Welcome to the club BTW , and great to see a new member with a machine new to the club !
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Mmmmmm, unless the web site is till in "delay" mode, Shawn is a non member. This is something he may need to consider (if not already done). I guess I need to say up front that if that is his real name he would be called "Chopsy" in Australia (Lamb chops?).
No disrespect intended. As I said earlier, there are lots of possibilities with this but most depend on the thickness of the wallet.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Ooops , have to admit I assumed before checking he was a member !! Never mind , he is still a new member to the Vincent community though , although I strongly agree he should formally join the club with a project like that !!
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hello Shawn, A few years ago I would have loved to have that challenge, You have all the big bits you need. Don't worry too much about the tune of the engine, The Lightning was not too hot,I have been running L/ning spec' engines for 40yrs on the road. I have found the carb's may be the only problem. If you do a lot of traffic work 28 or 30mm carb's might be better, you don't show what you have. I have just took T.T. carb's off one of my bikes and put 28mm concentrics Mk1, Because I now live where speeds are slow, It is nice to have a tickover and the standard clutch works better, But the bike still go's like stink !!. Good Luck Bill.
 

Shawn Lamb

New Website User
Non-VOC Member
I see a number of bikes that do not have kick starters.. Do the "electric legs" work well? Who has installed them? If someone would like to make rebuilder suggestions offline, I would appreciate it. Does the "Spares Comany" offer rebuild service (the Matchless OC does, reason for ask). Do Lectron carbs work well? I had seen a few on sporty Vincents.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Rebuilding wise , wait for your first copy of the club mag , MPH , there are a number of companies and individuals advertising their services in there. Engine tune can be whatever you want. When you decide how much performance you want then the necessary parts will be apparent. 80 BHP is easy for example ! Going for that much power would require commensurately powerful brakes , and so on.There are many solutions for ignition and generator systems depending on personal choice & preferences. The options are almost endless so you need to decide what style of machine you want to narrow down the list.
 

stumpy lord

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
HI,
the electric start manufactured by francois Grosset is so good that Patrick goddet do,s not fit kickstarts to his egli twins ,just Francois electric start. Both my son Roger and I have them fitted to our Twins and would not be with out them. How ever I should point out, that for them to work properly you have got to sort out both the ignition timing and carberation,as the electric starter will not sort out a bad starting machine, not to do so will risk breaking the shear pin or even the sprag clutch.
hope this helps.
stumpy lord.
 

Rapide

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
yes, point well made as the sprag clutch represents at least half the cost of the kit which is 1400 euros in total.
 

Alan J

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Welcome to the fold, Shaun, I live only 20 minutes away from you in Dav. As you no doubt realise, the Club Spares H.Q. is just a short ride away! Give us a call when you get it! Alan J.
 

stumpy lord

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
HI,
the electric start manufactured by francois Grosset is so good that Patrick goddet do,s not fit kickstarts to his egli twins ,just Francois electric start. Both my son Roger and I have them fitted to our Twins and would not be with out them. How ever I should point out, that for them to work properly you have got to sort out both the ignition timing and carberation,as the electric starter will not sort out a bad starting machine, not to do so will risk breaking the shear pin or even the sprag clutch.
hope this helps.
stumpy lord.
Can I add that with the Francois starter you can not push the machine backwards whilst in gear, the sprag clutch will not allow it. allso if you have tighten or loosen nuts on the engine that cause the motor to turn in reverse , You must remove the starter (three screws) or you will bugger the starter.
the reason I said about sorting the ignition and carberation is because this system is very prone to damage caused by backfires. Having said that, two years ago having driven to the Italian rally via Germany and Austria not once did I have to resort to the kick start, not evan when one night ,we had to abandon the bikes at the road side high in the dolomites due to snow. nor did we have to do any work on the starters , just press the little red button
stumpy lord.
 

Shawn Lamb

New Website User
Non-VOC Member
I can't wait to get it here. The e-start looks like a go. Carbs are a question. I see a huge variety out there. Then I want to discuss the pros/cons of 1000/1200/1360cc sizes..

Guys, imagine if you had to do it all over again.. What woud you do?
 

stumpy lord

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I can't wait to get it here. The e-start looks like a go. Carbs are a question. I see a huge variety out there. Then I want to discuss the pros/cons of 1000/1200/1360cc sizes..

Guys, imagine if you had to do it all over again.. What woud you do?

Mikunis give easy starting, reliable idling,good consumption and are easy to tune, What more could a chap ask ?

stumpy lord
 

passenger0_0

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Not really relevant to Shaun's exciting find but it's a bit reckless saying 80 hp is easy as it only serves to create/perpetuate a myth. How many people can say hand on heart that they've dynoed their engines at this figure? It can be achieved if you don't use a standard crank pin, run on methanol, re-work combustion chambers, fit long duration cams, rev the nuts of it etc...... As Father Ted used to day to Dougal "Real world....imaginary world". To My advice to Shaun is to do his research before jumping to any decisions as a tuned motor is a peaky motor and you lose the essence of what makes a Vincent so attractive, its broard spread of torque. Cheers David

Rebuilding wise , wait for your first copy of the club mag , MPH , there are a number of companies and individuals advertising their services in there. Engine tune can be whatever you want. When you decide how much performance you want then the necessary parts will be apparent. 80 BHP is easy for example ! Going for that much power would require commensurately powerful brakes , and so on.There are many solutions for ignition and generator systems depending on personal choice & preferences. The options are almost endless so you need to decide what style of machine you want to narrow down the list.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
My suggestion was to determine the performance that he wanted so that he could plan the configuration of the machine from there.
I have to disagree on the question of power though. The Vincent engine was in such a low state of tune that increasing power is relatively easy !! The 3 C's to start with , compression , cams & carbs ! The original comp ratio of 6.45:1 was side valve territory to cope with the deplorable fuel of the time , very small carbs , modest ports etc. Agreed this gives a nice soft , smooth power delivery , but more is easily available without too much compromise.
Compared to trying to substantially increase the power of a modern engine it's a doddle !! Inevitably the torque characteristics will be different form the original Vincent but maybe thats what Shaun wants , a road burner ! Maybe it isn't , it's his choice to make , but he's asking for info so the discussion process in this thread will provide that.
 

passenger0_0

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Sorry - I wasn't trying to be critical, just realistic. Most road Vincents make aroung high 30's to low 40 hp at the rear wheel. To try and achive what amount to nearly 80-100% increase is a major undertaking. I completely agree with the 3 C's to increase power but they alone won't achieve the magic 80 hp as there's a lot more to it than that. Forgetting engine reliability for a moment, just as an example I use E7/11 methanol pistons (11.5:1), Mk2 cams and 34mm amal smoothbore carbs (on methanol) and the best I've seen is 71 hp at the rear wheel. I haven't got the jetting right yet but people get so focused on peak hp they forget that an engine with a broard spread of torque will always be faster on most tracks and any road (apart from the motorway). My motor is peaky with little torque below 4,000 rpm and would be horrible to ride in any condition apart from wide open throttle. Anyway, enough of this. I agree with your sentiments and would suggest Shaun go for large capacity, Terry Prince 1200 kit being ideal as it has a vastly improved combustion chamber (theres no substitute for cubes) and his cranks are great value too. Just a parting thought - I believe that what ever the state of engine tune you have, unless you have the throttle twisted to the stop for more than 30% of the riding time then you're not really using what you've already got. Cheers David
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Well 71 BHP at the rear wheel is getting on for 80 at the crank which is what I meant , and that is with the mods I mentioned. IMHO the carbs are still too small , so with porting and combustion chamber work the power band could be filled out. Also , I have noticed that the choice of cams for Vincents seems to be limited , I only ever see refs to MKI , II and III Vincent cams. Is anything else available ? Do you get any detonation problems with 11.5:1 CR ?
There must be alot more potential in the Vincent motor , I've seen 750 Ducati Bevel motors with almost 90 BHP and 900SS Bevel motors with over 100 , with really wide power bands. OK the 900 is a Desmo head so it can have wild cam timing , but even so , the Vincent 1000 could get close.
 

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