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Tyres

Mickthevin

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Morning All
I Am Just About To Start Rebuilding My Black Shadow And I Was Wondering If Anybody Had Any Experience/advice About Tyre Choice.
I Was Hoping To Put On Some Modern Tyres As I Have Never Felt That Confident About Avon "skidmasters".
The Bike Will Be More Or Less Standard

Thanks

Mick
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
On the Vin I have the Skidmaster 3" x 20" front, and while it is OK, it would feel a lot more secure if it had a bigger footprint. I have a Roadrunner rear, what used to be 4.10 x 19, now 110/90 x 19" and it is a good match. The cheaper, squarer rear (Safety Mileage?) is OK in the dry but lean it in the wet and it climbs up on to the corner and feels decidedly iffy. Note that Avon names have changed several times in the last few years, so one guy's Roadrunner is another guy's Roadrider or Trackmaster. I bought Roadrunners because I knew they'd be new. Modern tyres go off faster than the old Bakelite ones.
(My race tyres are AM20 90/90 front, AM22 110/90 rear on 18" x WM3 (2.15) rims, and these are virtually universal on classic 500's, albeit in softer compounds than the road tyres. If they were available in 19" I'd be very tempted to screw originality.....)
 

Rapide998

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Got standard sized wheels and Avons fitted, although many have inform me in the past the compound is different from the early years, I can almost get my knee down on the Rapide. never had an issue wet or dry ok a bit twichy but that's the fun of it, If I was to change my wheel sizes I'd fit Avon Venoms. :) Roll the weekend.
 
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F

Flatout

Guest
Got standard sized wheels and Avons fitted, although many have inform me in the past the compound is different from the early years, I can almost get my knee down on the Rapide. never had an issue wet or dry ok a bit twichy but that's the fun of it, If I was to change my wheel sizes I'd fit Avon Venoms. :) Roll the weekend.

I've just ordered a sh*tmaster for the front and a Dunlop TT for the rear.
I don't think I would lean it over to far especially when you compare them to the tyres on the blade.
 

Mickthevin

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Tyre Choice

Just To Let Everybody Know I Spoke To The Tech. Officer At Avon Tyres And He Advised
Front (no Choice) 300x20 Speedmaster
Rear 100x90x19 Roadrider (very Latest Technology)
£126 Inc. Tubes And Tapes - 18 Hrs. Delivery Time From Cwc

Mick
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Mick - love to hear how you get on

Hi Mick,

That's very modern rubber for the Vincent - usually only those who've moved to Borani rims get stuff like that.

I've looked it up on the Avon site and it looks like a replacement for the Roadrunner that I have known and loved so long on first my Honda Superdream, then Kawasaki GPz55o H1 and finally CBR1000 FL. It looks very modern, very curvy and very unVincent. I found the Roadrunner was never the most high-tech rubber but it did everything I ever asked of it, got very decent mileage out of it and as I was then riding in all weather conditons (including deep snow drifts in Scotland when I was too young to know better) it never once let me down.

For my Vincent I bought the Safety Mileage Rear with the Speedmaster but have never fitted the SM, I left the Dunlop K70 on the bike which had been newly fitted when the bke was re-built in Australia in 2006. That has been the package I have seen on many Vincents I have looked at.

I very much look forward to hearing how you get on with the new Avon rear, and maybe a photo or two of your Shadow when it is up and running with the tyre on? I'd be interested to see how it looks on the bike.

I'm not that enthusiastic a rider (I think) but I've managed to ground the footrest rubbers on the Rapide using the tyre choice I have on - she feels as surefooted as can be and I never cease to be amazed at how well she handles in back to back comparison to my modern bikes - just doesn't stop like it.

Having said that I did find one thing the other evening when I went for a run in the dark - I don't do a lot of miles on the Vincent after dark but my goodness the headlight beam bounced up and down in good fashion when running along the 'A' roads round here!

You'll notice a difference on the Shadow after the Comet I bet.

Cheers, keep us posted.

Stuart
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
In the 1960's, Mike Hailwood was leaning the Honda six 60 degrees from vertical on tyres almost identical in profile to the Dunlop TT100. This may have been because what tyres the rider was using was less important than what rider was using the tyres. How true this is, even today.
FWIW, I have 300x20 front, Roadrunner rear, and they are both modern soft compounds, well matched, and OK in dry or wet. The front would be more secure with a bigger contact patch but this would mean changing to 19" rims.
 

PaulCraven

Website User
VOC Member
Avon Tyres

When I re-built my Prince in 2001, for the sake of originality I fitted the usual Speedmaster/SM combination. Not having ridden a Vincent for nearly 50yrs I accepted the handling as it was:mad:. It didn't like going round corners. I rode it like this for about 3500 miles always looking at what other Vincents were wearing and then fitted a pair of Roadrunners The difference was REMARKABLE. It now loves corners or more truthfully I do.:)

Paul
 

overthehill

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
I have 300x20 front, Roadrunner rear, and they are both modern soft compounds, well matched, and OK in dry or wet. The front would be more secure with a bigger contact patch but this would mean changing to 19" rims.

sorry to drag up old threads but i am looking at treating my rapide to new rubber this year. There is no choice with the 20" front but i understand that the current speedmasters are made out of modern rubber which should help. The question is do I get a 'classic' tyre (they still make 410-19 roadrunners and TT100's) or do I go for a modern tread 110/90 (eg. roadrider) - has anyone any experience.

In response to Toms comment above - there is a way of increasing the contact patch with a 20" front and that is to fit a WM2 rim - as against the vincent fitted WM1 - interestingly Avon recommend a WM2 for their 300-20 speedmaster. with this in mind I got my front wheel rebuilt a few years ago with a WM2 and it handles very well (for a Vincent) especially considering the speedmaster is about 20 years old !
 
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John Cone

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Having riden Jap bikes for a log time, I like modern rubber and have got Metzlers back and front on the Prince. I did'nt have any problems with even having the bike stood for over 12 years, no cracking or flat spots. The first few white lines had the old ring piece twinging but they gradually softened up. The tyres that is.
 
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Comet Rider

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As has been stated before, I run Avon "RoadRiders" front and rear (19" front and 18" rear)

They seem to perform extremely well on the Comet, and are still showing nice even wear characteristics:D I found the SpeedMaster front tracked groves and over banding to much, which resulted in a flighty front end, the SM rear was OK until you came to a roundabout in the wet, when it would step out at the slightest provocation:eek:

Having spoken to my friendly tyre shop, he recomends either Continentals or Avons for most older bikes, but if you have either 20/21" fronts try Hidenaut (Len Mathews can correcxt me on the spelling) who make all sorts of odd sizes:D

Neil
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I run Avon speedmaster front, roadrunner (rider, whatever) rear. The roadrunner is labelled 110/90 which is "furrin" for 4.10/3.50. Safety Mileage rear was OK in the dry, but in the wet one felt one was skating on thin ice when it climbed up on the corner. I have a prejudice against mixing makes front to rear, FWIW.
Because i measure such things I know that modern Avon road rubber is the same hardness as Dunlop and Michelin race rubber used to be. Suits me...
IHRO regulations limit the tyres to be used in their classic races. These are Avon AM20 90/90, Avon AM22 110/90, Avon AM22 120/90, or Dunlop KR485 (which is a front triangular designed for a 125, but flattened out on the wider WM3 rim a Manx uses). My distinct impression is that this reflects Avon's greater interest in "old bike" tyres, albeit with modern rubber. If you want the real period look, you could go for Speedmaster front, GP rear, both in race rubber, like a 350 Manx with which we are both acquainted.
Good idea to run a WM2 front - but too late, too much money already spent!
sorry to drag up old threads but i am looking at treating my rapide to new rubber this year. There is no choice with the 20" front but i understand that the current speedmasters are made out of modern rubber which should help. The question is do I get a 'classic' tyre (they still make 410-19 roadrunners and TT100's) or do I go for a modern tread 110/90 (eg. roadrider) - has anyone any experience.

In response to Toms comment above - there is a way of increasing the contact patch with a 20" front and that is to fit a WM2 rim - as against the vincent fitted WM1 - interestingly Avon recommend a WM2 for their 300-20 speedmaster. with this in mind I got my front wheel rebuilt a few years ago with a WM2 and it handles very well (for a Vincent) especially considering the speedmaster is about 20 years old !
 

Ken Tidswell

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have used 3.60X19 front and 4.10X19 rear TT100's . As the front tyre wears the feedback from the front tyre disappears , but still grips.This was my preference for along time. i have tried 100/90X19
Road Rider front but don't like the heavier streering. The 20inch front ribbed I don't like because there was no feel at all, and it had a tendency to drift on long flat corners. I am going to try 90/100 Road Rider front next . My 4 pence worth.
Be very careful with Avons , when newly fitted, they are very slippery as like diesel oil patches ,until the mould release agent wears off, which takes some time.
 

serious C

Website User
VOC Member
I use Heidenau 3.50-19 57H K34 Oldtimer TT by Heidenau on my Comet.
I put about 3000 miles on it and its still more than half of the range left.
So at least for a single they are highly recomendable.No troubles
handlingwise.
 

roy the mechanic

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Boggler 122 makes a good point regarding new covers + lack of grip. The answer is quite simple. Gently break the tread area with a large bastard file(yes Ms net nanny) that's it's correct name. This is the racers trick, has worked well for me for 30 years. Roy.
 

peterg

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Adrift on a 3.0 X 20 and a prayer

Howdy Chaps,

Mold release agents? Just take a lightly saturated rag with an astringent like spray Brake Clean and slowly wipe the outer tread perimeter, no manual drying required as it evaporates very quickly.

Have read with interest posts regarding lack of communication imparted by 3.0 x 20 Speedmaster equiped fronts. My mileage of the last decade had been entirely on a touring spec Vin with a (marginally low inflated) 3.50 x 19 which apparently is only marginal better by reason of it's slightly larger foot print. Wanting a vintage experience, both aesthetically and with operational feel, but some element of predictability (safety - especially two up). I opted to go with a setup then that provides slight understeer on turn in, communicative transition at apex and degree of oversteer dictated by rider throttle - all of this conducted at a rate of g's that wouldn't spill your cocktail if seated comfortably in the back of a limo. Thus, front shock set soft on jounce with strong rebound - to get the front end down and planted when trail braking in - running 10wt and a generally stiff rear on 20wt that did doesn't do much to speak of either way. I didn't care about weight transfer particularly for acceleration seeing how that is being done somewhat leisurely. We have lots of sweeping country roads here that lend themselves to settling into a good rhythm, with pleasant elevation changes offering much 3rd-4th gear 50-70mph riding for long periods at a time.

So, stepping up for an even more vintage experience, ie, stock clutch, Miller 6v genie and other period pieces for this new Shadow, just carefully assembled both shocks and filled with recommended oils from publications on the subject and set off with this 3.0 x 20 Speemaster equiped machine. Wow, very spooky. Not helped by the fact that within the 10 years since that first Vin resto I have discovered custom compounded front linings which I have bonded on and then hand radius for much better bite, but to the accompanyment of little/no dive, any braking done while leaning in to a sweeper just results in this machine gently drifting the front - no drama - it just wants to track right off the road in lazy arc. With an undersized 3.0-3.25x19 tube fitted, do not want any shuffling between it and the tire, so, am loath to drop air pressures to find grip as I'm not running bead locks on this one.

Suitably chastened, I'm thinking maybe MrGaynor's recommendation for a race compound front might be the answer (??). Afterall, the race compound RB2 front for /2 BMW's transforms them.
 
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