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The Oil Tank Shadow

pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Everybody,
I just pull out my oil tank this afternoon for cleaning and its really in bad shape. It has already been cut on the side probably to repair a broken pipe. I would like to know if this part is available as new, because I haven't seen it on the Vincent spares web site ? Or is there anybody in England able to make a new and proper one ?
Thanks.
 

Comet Rider

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
UFM/Oil tank

Hi Pete,

When the club/ VOCSC built the shadow a year or so ago it was possible to buy a new UFM to mate up with your existing headstock. If you contact the spares Co. and speak to the team they should be able to help you.

Best of luck
Neil
 

pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks Dan and Neil for your quick answers ! I've went on the Norvincentre website and they have a new complete UFM for 1195 GBP.
The VOC spares CO, got a complete one for 1499 GBP.
That is a lot of money ! However, they sell it with the headlug. I'm going to ask them if it could possible to have only the oil tank without the headlug, because I don't need it, but maybe it won't be possible...
Pete
 

ogrilp400

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
UFM Repairs

Pete,
Is it possible to put up a couple of photos of it?. What you consider impossible to repair may indeed just be repairable given the right facilities and expertise. I have seen some pretty desperate motorcycle, car, truck and aeroplane parts repaired to as new condition. The UFM is after all just sheet steel.

Phelps.
 

pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Phelps,

I'm going to make pics of it and show you. Well, when I say it is in bad shape is the fact that is has been cut on the side, and I don't know what was done inside. The cut part has been put back by brazing. Is it good ?
Should I open again and make a good welding ? I'm not sure that brazing is good for an oil tank that supports the engine. What do you think ?
Is this recommanded for a Vincent ?
 

Graham Smith

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
Thanks Dan and Neil for your quick answers ! I've went on the Norvincentre website and they have a new complete UFM for 1195 GBP.
The VOC spares CO, got a complete one for 1499 GBP.
That is a lot of money ! However, they sell it with the headlug. I'm going to ask them if it could possible to have only the oil tank without the headlug, because I don't need it, but maybe it won't be possible...
Pete

As far as I know, the ones the Spares Company supply don't come from the same supplier as the Norvin Centre's ones.

Furthermore, again, as far as I know, the Spares Company ones have been made against the drawings supplied by the VOC's Technical Committee.
 

ogrilp400

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
UFM Repair

G'Day Pete,
It sounds from your description a little like a hole has been cut in the side of it for some particular reason and a patch brazed over the top. I am surmising that it would be fairly easy to repair. The patch must be removed by careful cutting and grinding. Don't try to remove it by heating and melting the braze, this will most probably result in the braze material going deep into the granular structure of the steel and you will have to cut that out too. The edges of the hole should then be evened out and made more regular. Next a piece of sheet steel the same gauge as the original must be cut and filed to perfectly fit the hole and the edges weld prepped. A competent tig welder can then weld the piece in place and with careful grinding and sanding the repair will be almost invisible. Without actually seeing it, it is difficult to make a definite analysis though.

Phelps.
 
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pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Phelps,

Thanks for your reply. Here are pics of my UFM. The first one, I remove only the paint and the second one, I grind it to make it proper. After grinding it, I put some liquid in it to see if there was any leakage, but noting, everything is OK.
What do you think? Should I put it back like this ? The brazing seems OK, but is it really recommanded ?
Thanks.
 

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Bracker1

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi Pete, Looks like a Gorilla repair, ugly but strong. If the bike is going to be restored to a high standard, repair with TIG or replace. Brazing is a very strong repair, lower heat and distortion. I think Jaguar subframe tubes are brazed , and they are under a bit more stress. Personally, I would clean it up, paint, and put back together for spring riding as is. Good luck, Dan
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
I would leave alone if its not leaking at the joint. Braze joints are stronger than what you think, and as the UFM is such a large well built and strong construction it won't weaken it. As for cosmetic appearance, once the fuel tank is on you won't be able to see it at all. You could smear a thin coat of filler over the braze joint before painting, but I would just paint it.

Cheers,
Simon.
 

ET43

Guest
UFM repair

Hi Gents, It seems to me that Pete400 has effectively removed half the strength from this awful repair by grinding it back flush. Judging by the state of the repair, I would hazard a guess and say that that repair had a lot of glass slag in it, which when it degrades will leave holes for oil to get out. The same criteria applied to the fuel tanks that I have seen repaired with braize. They all leaked! I'm not an engineer, but I would be inclined to infill this area with a steel patch as has been suggested, and whilst you are at it, clean the thing out, fit one of the paper filters and a spin on oil filter in the return line, put a magnet on a wire hanging down inside the UFM filler neck, you''l be surprised what it catches, and one in the sump plug, and Bob's your uncle.
Good Luck with it,
ET43
 

ogrilp400

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
UFM Repairs

G'day Pete,
Now I can see it a bit better I think you have three options. 1. As Dan and Simon say, it looks like quite a strong weld so leave it alone and paint it and use it. 2. How far away from Patric Godet are you? His frames are braze welded I believe to a very high standard. He could make a very informed decision if you take it to him. Possibly he might just reprep it and redo the weld. Mind you if Patric does it then it will be so good and look so good that you won't want to paint it and cover it up. :) 3. As I mentioned previously, Carefully cut the piece out and get a piece tig welded back in.
Dan is right, all Jaguar E-type sub frames are brazed and they work well, even in competition.

Phelps.
 

pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks ET43 and Phelps for your answers, it really help me ! Interesting regarding jaguar E type. Well, I live in the south of France, near Marseille, and Patrick is a bit far from me. If I lived near him, I will probably went to see him and show him the tank for a advice. I think I'm going to put it back for the moment. If the oil tank leaks, therefore, I will cut the piece out and get a piece tig welded back in.
Thanks again,
Pete.
 

roy the mechanic

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
re-brazing

The Jaguar frames have to be bronze welded because they are made of Reynolds"531" the same as a manx nortonframe. If any other form of welding is used the material will become crystalline(not only brittle but dangerous). The are too many "engineers" out there
 

ogrilp400

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Welding Chromemoly

Chromoly can be welded........by tig welding. Granted it has to be stress relieved after but that is another form of welding it. Aircraft tubes are welded this way.

Phelps.
 

roy the mechanic

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
When Reynolds came-up with 531 the only choices were gas or electric arc welding. tig+mig had not yet been invented, wonderful acheivments are possible with these new systems! Roy.
 

indianken

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Jaguar frames were "bronze welded" because you can teach a monkey to braze. Teaching someone how to do a proper weld on "531" (USA 4130?)
takes time and money and you have to pay him a higher rate of pay too.:eek:

Ken Smith
(Amature welder, gas, braze, tig, mig, submerged arc (Crankshaft build up).



The Jaguar frames have to be bronze welded because they are made of Reynolds"531" the same as a manx nortonframe. If any other form of welding is used the material will become crystalline(not only brittle but dangerous). The are too many "engineers" out there
 

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