Tim and Vince,I haven’t been to any VOC GCMs or AGMs for the last six years - in the previous 30 years or so I attended most of them. In that time I was usually in the opposite camp to the Exec, being against increasing the membership subscription to facilitate the constant race to increase the size of MPH, building up the Clubs’ cash balance to an unnecessary amount, buying property, getting in too deep in financing the Spares Company, the constant rush to propose new Honorary Members to the point of rivalling the House of Lords and many other issues. Occasionally I won, mostly I lost. I’ve had more arguments with Andy Everett and Tim Kirker than all the present posters on this subject put together. In true democratic style, the members at these meetings could stand up and say what they liked without being castigated for their opinion as long as they accepted the vote when everyone else had their say.
On this Forum some posters use a variety of methods to discredit people who don’t agree with what they say and using just a surname immediately shows no respect for the person’s opinion; employing tricks perfected by trolls and gutter press all over the world to undermine, misquote or exaggerate the victim’s words. Not only do the Exec members get abused but we are now moving into the actual irrelevance of the positions they hold within the VOC in this brave new world of the internet.
Alyn Vincent has recently (with a total lack of self-awareness) explained to us how to have civilized debate. I live in a Yorkshire mining area and am not fazed by the language used in Australia and the Welsh valleys where he obviously perfected his prose, but the Forum is not the place to use it.
Just to get some context, I am led to believe that about 200 VOC members (including me) use the Forum, with a couple of dozen penning most of the dissatisfaction. The other 2000 or so probably have no idea, or care about, who runs it or if it continues, so let’s not get carried away with statements such as being potentially the VOCs biggest section - a little pee in a big pond. Governments and banks all want to do away with cash as available technology has made it obsolete, it will happen, but the timing has to be right. The same applies with the VOC, in the not too distant future the membership will vote for a move online, that’s respecting democracy.
I earlier said I was worried this subject would split the VOC; I’m now starting to believe it is the intention of a few - helped along the way by others - that can’t see it coming.
Before anyone asks, I don’t think Tim Kirker was having a rant, he put forward a counter argument against Graham’s nomination as is the custom, and he lost. So it was put forward to the AGM as the majority voted, so why have we had constant bile from his supporters ever since that besmirches the image of the VOC?
Having watched the video I think Arthur Farrow was VERY calm, not ranting as claimed. His inference that Graham’s bike collection needed looking into will need proof; if he can’t provide it he should issue a formal apology.
Just a thought, why are some posters so keen for Graham to be made an Honorary Member of a Club they have no respect for
I hope any replies will reflect what I have said, not what they think or imagine I have said.
Vince Farrell
It was not Alyn who made the point about debate and the conduct of debate. It was me. Vince, not so long ago in an unrelated conversation a large number of people on the forum switched to using their real names and mine is there for all to see.
I am trying to persuade each of us to reflect on what we are saying, as we all know once you say something it cant be taken back. I hope that cooler heads can prevail, I love this club. I don't know Graham all that well and I don't know Tim, Arthur or Phil either. I don't have a grudge to bear or skin in the game
In my experience when there are heated debates or arguments in order to fully understand the points of both parties you have to step into the shoes of those that have opposing views to your own.
This current division in the Club over the forum looks to me like this. We as a Club did not have a Computer Officer for the longest time. Members of the EC and Club were running the computer systems as there was no dedicated person or person's to supervise the systems. Graham being the editor of MPH stepped up and offered to create a forum for all members to use. He obviously was enjoying what he was doing and worked very hard to give the membership a quality resource. Graham donated many, many hours from what I can see to make MPH and the forum what they are today. At some point in the last couple of years two things have happened, the club has found someone who has volunteered to take up the mantel of Computer Officer, awesome. The club has decided now that we have a Computer Officer that we can look to update and streamline our computer systems, again awesome.
However this is where things take a turn for the worst. Phil Mahood in his position as Computer Officer is tasked by the EC with finding a replacement computer system for the club . In the search for a new computer system Phil finds Club Express through conversations with the head of the AMCA. Phil takes the CE platform to our EC and explains how it works and why it would be of benefit. This is a good thing for the most part. Phil then presents a working version of Club Express to the GC and EC it seems to work well and combines most of our systems into one. The one major issue is the forum on CE is sub standard and this is obvious to Graham who has spent years refining the current forum for the membership. Graham expresses that the forum is sub par and is thinking not of himself but the many hundreds of people that currently use the forum. The Computer Officer tries to dispel the weakness of the CE forum as he has taken ownership of the programme he is putting forward and believes given time that we might be able to migrate the current forum over. Migrating the forum to CE proves almost impossible and we are left with a pickle, Graham feels unheard and upset as he knows the CE forum will not match the standard of the existing forum. That leaves us in a position where both Graham and the EC are at an impasse, all are proud and loyal club members. The majority of the EC decide to use Club Express and that the current forum can stay in place until CE can provide something better. Graham resigns.
I know other things have been expressed by all parties and that blame can be allocated to both sides. Heated arguments often leave us regretting what we have said and from the video footage it seems to me thats the case. I don't think either party wakes up each day and says to themselves how much evil can I do today. All the people concerned have the best interests of the club they love at heart. It again requires listening and working together to try to resolve these issues.
People on this forum just want to know that the EC will do as promised and leave the forum alone until such time as it can migrated to the other platform seamlessly or if it can't that it will remain as is. If it were added to the minutes of the next meeting or tabled in writing in MPH by the Chairman that might help.
Best,
Gene.
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