Misc: Electric Starters HD Decompressors (Solenoid)

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
As my starter gear is to heavy loaded when spinning up the crank with HD bendix starter (Godet). I did machine in some HD decompressors. nice nice, (after 3 starter gears) but::::

If I would start it with ignition on, it would cause a flame out of them, not so good when petrol is near.....

And what if I would switch on the ignition (and same time the solenoid off, closing decompressor) would that give a untimed spark at moment when swich on, causing whatever.....

using TrisPark now.

any ideas?

cheers

Vincent
 

andrew peters

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The (latest) HD electric decompressors are 'wired' through the ECM and the starter solenoid so allow a brief few revolutions of the motor before spark and fuel are introduced.. it's all computer controlled so not quite applicable to us. Also the HD electric decompressors 'exhaust' through a drilling into the exhaust port,(more for emissions) again not applicable to us here.. So I guess you have the manual pop-off type decompressors, burning gasses are escaping before the motor shuts the decompressor. So we need to cut the spark on initial start up.. On the earlier HD Shovelheads with electric start the problem was getting the motor to spin fast enough to actually fire and run, early Norton electric start bikes had a similar problem but they were using the same Prestolite starter as Harley in the mid 70s... A 'fix' was to modify the start/run switches on the rightside handlebar. The idea was the starter would spin the motor up faster (without the coil having power) and once the flywheels had plenty inertia you switched the ignition coil on, the motor fires and runs! In our case, the decompressors should shut as compression builds so by the time you switch the ignition (coils) there no burning fuel escaping. This all happens quite quickly of course however it does require a two thumb operation, start button and ignition switch, or some clever wiring with delay relays... A;ways when we solve a problem we find we've created two more! good luck
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
On a 2015 model Godet Egli here in Aussie we have just installed all the stock mechanical decompressor into the timing chest to relieve the strain on the starter for starts, this bike gone through 3 starter ring gears, now changed (upgraded) to the new starting system using a solid crank sprocket and a cushdrive in the clutch hub.......after some jetting changes in the carb's it is all looking to work well.......fingers crossed........With the solenoid decompressors.......I installed a pair on a 1200 Norvin I built a couple of years ago........A single a bit before this......on a single, you only need to use it to just turn the engine over TDC......on the twins on cranking, they can tend to make a mess atop the engine as semi burnt fuel/oil gets pushed out of them rather rapidly and spreads over the top of the cylinder head. On this Norvin, I opted to use a small pair of banjo fittings that the decomp valves screw down through and seal into the head........from these, I plumbed them together, then ran a single flexable pipe down behind the engine, exiting forward and bellow the swing arm pivot.......On use the noise is near gone and no visual mess, and certainly no flames........I also found it best to have a separate handlebar button to use for the solenoids.......That way you can operate the valves for the initial cranking over, then release it to help it fire up........It is very important on any of these electric start engines, that little or no throttle is used for starting........if the throttle is opened up, the volumetric efficiency of the engine rises very sharply, this makes cranking way more difficult for the electric starter.......no matter which starter is used........On a "Primary chain wheel.....ring gear" type starter, the cranking ratio is very poor, like a Harley, so care with the starting procedure is very important if you want the system to survive........Cheers.......Greg.
 

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
On breaking theeth on the ring gear, i noticed the relief of the small pinion, coming out on a rotating spline, is very little and even has "big" flats.
So i will make them bit more relief. So bit more positive engage is created.
Further, upon disassembly noticed the motor relais comes in rather early.
Nice, nice. A polishing starter...
So i will change that a bit.

HD parts man said, he also sells some starter rings....

Pictures later.
 

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
ESA. In place. Only one theeth in motion, hope it saves the chain...
And whole chain 1,5mm to outside, creating space for little start pinion.!!!

IMG-20221205-WA0007.jpeg
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Are those standard catalog Belleville springs for the ESA or did you modify them? If standard, what manufacturer and model number?
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Harley's have been having starter issues for years........the bigger or more high spec the engine the worse the problem is........If you look at all other bike engines like larger V twins, they all turn the crank via a one way clutch and some gearing.........Our issue is turning a larger chainwheel or clutch pully verses a smaller crank sprocket/pully so the turning ratio to the starter motor is very poor........On the starter pinion verses the crank sprocket the ratio is about 5:1 forget the internal gearing within the starter, that is a constant weather it is a car engine or for a bike, its still the same.......On a car engine like a small or big block Chevy, the pinion to ring gear ratio is about 10:1.
 

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Are those standard catalog Belleville springs for the ESA or did you modify them? If standard, what manufacturer and model number?
They are 43x90 mm and I have cleaned them out to 45.1mm esa being 45.0.
And made flats on them for better dynamic thrust
 
Top