E: Engine Egli 500 Special Carburation

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Ben,

I have the same setup on my racer. I did not say anything because I start my bike with rollers. My first BTH had electronic advance and retard, the second one was fixed ignition. I ran my BTH ignition that had the electronic advance and retard at 19 degrees full advance. It was a very good starter on the rollers.

But this is exactly the problem that Greg is talking about. My bike makes the best power at 19 degrees, so if the retard/advance is working as it should, it would be a 19 BTC when fully retarded. That does not sound good for easy kicking. Because I am racing and running mostly at 4500-7000 RPM, fixed ignition is fine.

The advance/retard problem is caused because most ignition makers use inexpensive chips from the automotive industry. These have very limited adjustment. As the efficiency of the combustion chamber goes up, so does BHP, but to get that power you have to run with the ignition in the most retarded position with maximum torque. When the total range of the advance/retard from TDC excedes the ignition setting from TDC you may have problems.

BTH will not be much help because they build ignitions for one or the other Street or race, not street and race.

BTH could make it fixed ignition. This would make the starting hard.

You could run one plug. This makes some sense, because a one plug racing setup is almost as good as two plugs. Unless you are flowing heads and testing cams and exhaust systems you may not be able to get all the power out of the engine. You could always convert it back.

You could change ignition and go to a programmable ignition. A small group of Vincent owners over here have been working on Power Arc Ignition to provide programmable ignitions. That could be an option in the future if you feel it is worthwhile.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Morning Greg, Can you tell us how to set up for single plug firing, Ben has 2 coils ?, Does one have to be earthed. Cheers Bill.
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The wires that come out of the mag and connect to the coils are set up in pairs, two brown and two blue ones. You only need to find the coil where the wires are in pairs and either blank the second wires that goes to the other coil, or simply cut them off, and remove the second coil (keep it as a spare) Then you just set up the ignition timing as per a single plug ignition. It will run fine, the twin plug set up is only beneficial to an all out racer using very high compression pistons where the tall dome masks the flame travelling from one side of the combustion chamber to the other. The 600 Norvin I have just finished runs one of Terry's top end kits with the squish band piston set up, I am using the left plug hole for the plug and in the right one I have one of those Enfield decompressors which works fabulously, it is so easy to use and starts very well, this with a 36 mm Mikuni carb and factory spec Mk 2 cam. All good.............:)
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Thanks Greg, How do you set the timing, Don't you need a rod or something, Ben has no info, and I would like to know, Didn't BTH have a web site ?. Cheers Bill.
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Not necessarily........If it has been set up at a lower full advance figure of say 26 degrees, then the retarded position will be after TDC this is the starting issue he is having. You need to disconnect one coil, then reset the advance back up to 34/35 degrees. There is a small cap screw made of brass usually just behind the mounting flange, same spot as the earth brush on an original Lucas mag, unscrew and you need a short length say 75 mm long of 6 mm rod, you could use a drill I suppose. He would have to remove the ATD cover at the front of the timing cover, undo the pinion clamping bolt in the center of the pinion, set the crank on the firing stroke at 34 degrees BTDC and realign the mag shaft with the rod down the hole, re-tighten the pinion bolt, remove the 6 mm rod and button it all back up. It would be best to use a timing disc and pointer to get a more accurate timing figure. With that amount of advance the retarded (starting) point for the mag would be about 4 degrees before TDC, thus much better for engine starting. Cheers and good luck..............Greg.
 

Martyn Goodwin

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Ben,

I have the same setup on my racer. I did not say anything because I start my bike with rollers. My first BTH had electronic advance and retard, the second one was fixed ignition. I ran my BTH ignition that had the electronic advance and retard at 19 degrees full advance. It was a very good starter on the rollers.

But this is exactly the problem that Greg is talking about. My bike makes the best power at 19 degrees, so if the retard/advance is working as it should, it would be a 19 BTC when fully retarded. That does not sound good for easy kicking. Because I am racing and running mostly at 4500-7000 RPM, fixed ignition is fine.

The advance/retard problem is caused because most ignition makers use inexpensive chips from the automotive industry. These have very limited adjustment. As the efficiency of the combustion chamber goes up, so does BHP, but to get that power you have to run with the ignition in the most retarded position with maximum torque. When the total range of the advance/retard from TDC excedes the ignition setting from TDC you may have problems.

BTH will not be much help because they build ignitions for one or the other Street or race, not street and race.

BTH could make it fixed ignition. This would make the starting hard.

You could run one plug. This makes some sense, because a one plug racing setup is almost as good as two plugs. Unless you are flowing heads and testing cams and exhaust systems you may not be able to get all the power out of the engine. You could always convert it back.

You could change ignition and go to a programmable ignition. A small group of Vincent owners over here have been working on Power Arc Ignition to provide programmable ignitions. That could be an option in the future if you feel it is worthwhile.
There is an Australian made fully programable ignition that has had good reviews https://www.trispark.com.au/firebox-pro-for-british-twins and is also suitable for singles
And there is the kit that allows you to tune it to your hearts content
https://www.trispark.com.au/firebox-pro-programming-kit
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The single are easy...it's the 50 degree twins that are difficult. I think one plug is the best option for Ben, for now.

David
 
Top