Do I need a refresh?

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Kenny,

I don't mind pulling your leg, but we would need to be much closer in proximity! Thanks for the mention. I was, of course, being serious, but do not hesitate to ask if you think I am out of my mind.

As usual, Trevor has distilled the essence. I will say that the cylinder above was assembled dry and it broke in wonderfully. I think the use of the term "Dry" has become common because the average assembler uses way too much oil. Everyone has their own system, but I think the "take away" from these lasts posts is that it is extremely important to make sure you have enough friction in the bore so that the rings can bed in and seal properly.

Mark is one of the few people I know that tries to ride his Vincent every day. As a result, he knows how well the bikes run when they are in continuous use!

By, the way, I usually do a leak down test after break-in to check the sealing of the valves and rings. The number may be anywhere from less than 1% to 5%. If I were riding on the street I would do another test every fall and note the number. When the number gets to high I would plan to do a refresh over the winter. When I broke the top ring and did a leak down test it was 60%. I think you will notice poor performance in the 20% plus area. I would not worry about doing this, necessarily, I just wanted you to know that guessing is not the only method.

David
 

KennyNUT

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Hi all,

No more leg pulling :rolleyes:, I would like some good advice.

I am in the re-assembly stage. And all has gone really well until tonight!

The head and barrel was returned from Simon Linford and the liner was deglazed by re-introducing the x-hatching.

P1050149.jpg

Probably not my best image but your can see the x-hatching and this time it goes all the way to the other end (which is the end I should have photographed (sigh). Too late for that. Pressing on.

I decided to spruce up the engine as well, so masked everything over on the barrel (head side)....

P1050162.jpg


and at the base to protect the liner.



Then I masked off the vulnerable parts of the head.....


P1050167.jpg
.

Ok after every nook and cranny was protected, it was painted and using the left over gentle heat from my wife's oven (after she baked a rather fabulous Victoria sponge) the engine enamel was cured. Couldn't have been easier. The hardest bit was explaining whay I had motorcycle parts in her oven. For the safety conscious amongst you, I switch the mains electricity off for the oven (avoiding any sparks from the thermo stat or fan for cooling and opened all doors to the outside from the kitchen and utility room to ensure we were not all as high as kites from the solvent. Oh yes, the kids were kept out too!

P1050169.jpg


Ok, so with that done it was time to press on with the new piston rings and barrel assembly.

Well I bought a proper piston ring compression tool and it was way too big. Not only that, its design did not allow the compression sprung steel to unwrap from the piston to aid removal underneath the barrel and with conrod attached. It was designed for engine short block assembly to introduce the piston and conrod into the engine block with connection onto the main crank with shells, not for a barrel over piston assembly. Aargh.

Ok, so I resorted to a 70-90mm jubilee clip, purchased as a pair from B& Q for the princely sum of £2.57. Another hour wasted.

It actually worked beautifully, with the piston crown square (?) to the liner and it pushed over beautifully with gentle even force by hand. Oil was only added below the scraper ring.

And the ring gaps; the lowest oil control ring was offset from the thrust face, the middle ring 90 degrees round from that offset on the front of the piston with the top ring offset by 90 degrees again offset at the other side , still at the front of the piston. None of the rings overlapped onto the gudgeon pin at the sides . On the base of the barrel, I used a standard paper gasket and coated it both sides with a little Lithium grease. That held it nicely in place.

P1050181.jpg


Viola! (please indulge me a little in making progress with the old girl!)

Ok next stage, the pushrod tube glands were replaced as well as all the paper gaskets above and below the flange, the head introduced to a tiny bead of rhodorsil around the outer part of the barrel well away from the liner. I actually regret this now, as I recall how nicely the head slipped off on dismantling. The next time I do it, it will need a bit of a pull and I will have to be careful where those darn strings of sealant go. No going back now!

P1050184.jpg


The plate for the UFM is also fitted. Everything 30ft/lb on the head bolts and also on the top 4 bolts and tightened diagonally, to prevent distortion ( I hope).

Ok so a bit of tidying up. with the pushrods to be fitted.

P1050190.jpg


The shiny new inspection caps were loosely fitted with new gaskets, as were all the oil lines onto copper gaskets (or original brass with rubber coating on the inside diameter (very neat) as found on the major connector past the oil pump brass screw (OP32) which incidentally, I cleaned up and added to the back threads a little Rhodorsil. It was leaking here before, so I hope that should be OK now.

Then on with the carb onto a new gasket (dry)....

P1050189.jpg


I polished and refitted the aluminium shroud at the front of the engine.

P1050193.jpg


Ah yes, Someone will think I did not bother to re-route the spark plug. Actually, it was too short and I forgot to order some cable so back on with the previous one for now and it is cable tied to the oil pipe which never seems to warm up very much, except maybe through conduction.

Ok, so the whole front end was reunited with the engine, rear of Comet, the cables refitted, the carburettor slides, needle and cap refitted, wiring loom rerouted but not yet affixed into the headlamp. The horn button was re-affixed to the handlebar and to be honest I was done in after that! In fact too tired to write this up last night and too far behind on family chores!

So its all coming together...

P1050200.jpg


Still to do list:

  1. Electrics to fit in the headlamp and do a full wiring check
  2. Tank to fit
  3. Exhaust valve lifter and clutch cables to adjust
  4. Recheck all oil pathways (I also fitted an oil drainer to the underside of the main oil tank. Very neat design and lock wired.)
  5. Add 20wt running in oil (Millers) (I am not going to change the filter as it is only 11 months old and only 100 miles used.) I will of course change it after the running in oil has done its job and been drained later next year
  6. Recharge battery and fit
  7. Kick into life!
Ok , THE problem (at last)! :mad:

I took off the valve inspection covers and positioned the pushrods until they were centrally in the tube and felt seated at the base and then tightened down the top adjuster (ET27) at the top end of the rod until it would not move up and down but I could turn it. I checked and rechecked this. So I gently turned over the engine with the kick start and wow the pushrod went ping and popped out from under the top ET27 fitting! I pulled it out and looked at the bottom of the pushrod and it had marked. In fact when I removed them during dis-assembly, I noticed they had been marked before. I sanded them gently with 400 grit and took the marks out. The ball ends are not perfect but they do still look moderately round, not flattened. I thought they were serviceable. The ET 27 fittings themselves look fine. The pushrods are currently 5 7/8 long. I see there are longer ones at 6" from the spares company.

Would the longer push rods reduce the angle and stop the pushrod from popping out from under the adjuster or should I be checking something else.

This is where I need your help.

Thanks in advance!

Kenny.
 

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Your pushrod was probably not seated in the camfollower cup but outside, you really need the timing cover off and peer behind the camwheel to ensure it seats properly, I have done the same !!
Chris.
 

KennyNUT

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Hi Chris,

I was thinking along the same lines, and bought the gasket for this, previously, so I removed it all tonight. Trouble is I didn't know where to start!

P1050215.jpg


If someone could write a short idiot's step by step guide to removing the timing plate cover and what to do and not to do, that would be great. I looked at it and thought what if all the cogs fell out! I know they won't (will they :D) but that scared me a little as no-one nearby is likely to be able to help me. I am getting bolder, but I don't want to be stupid and make the most awful error. From what I can see I need to get the timing cover plate off and maybe remove ONLY the dark cog beneath the pushrod tubes? Maybe paint some marks on to match up the teeth (just in case)?

Thanks.

Kenny.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
You don't mention lapping the head joint. If the rhodorsil holds the head too far off the muff the head will not pinch the liner flange enough to seal.
 

KennyNUT

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Hi Ian,

I didn't lap the head. It fitted beautifully, dry and the bead of Rhodorsil that I put on was very, very small, (1mm) and well away from the liner and around the outside of the bolts. To be fair to the bike, it didn't leak there before! I was just a touch over-cautious.
I also asked Simon Linford to check all the fits (head to barrel) and he said everything was fine.

I think it is well sealed. Compression on the gentle pushes of the kick start felt very good, though I cannot prove that without a compression gauge, only my foot and knee gauge.

Thank, Kenny.
 

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
You shouldn't need to remove anything else, if you look in behind the front of the camwheel above the steady plate I think you should be able to see the exhaust camfollower cup and behind the back to see the inlet one, a tiny mirror would help.
Chris.
 

KennyNUT

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Thanks Chris and Bruce.

Its too late tonight, but I will get a torch and some small cosmetic mirror or something to see and try this out tomorrow.

The timing chest cover, once off reminded me of the inside of a Swiss watch but on a rather larger scale, of course! Glad I don't have to remove that this time.

After trying this I will decide on whether to replace the pushrods.

Fingers-crossed!

Regards,

Kenny.
 

Mark Fisher

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Thanks Chris and Bruce.

Its too late tonight, but I will get a torch and some small cosmetic mirror or something to see and try this out tomorrow.

The timing chest cover, once off reminded me of the inside of a Swiss watch but on a rather larger scale, of course! Glad I don't have to remove that this time.

After trying this I will decide on whether to replace the pushrods.

Fingers-crossed!

Regards,

Kenny.
Kenny I think it might be a good idea to replace the pushrods if they have already been nicked a couple of times. I have made the error of not seating the rods in the follower cups myself so don't feel too bad! You can see the cups with a torch and spectacles (in my case!) if you look hard enough, so no need to take all the gubbins off. I just did this recently with my TPV Egli creation. In case you aren't aware you can feed the pushrods thru the rocker arms if you take the adjusters out, so no need for major surgery, also if the cups and pushrod balls are in good shape you will find that with oil present there is enough suction to be able to move the followers slightly if you pull on the pushrods. good luck.
mark
 
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