Concours Judging

[Bill Thomas]

We had a Bloke in West London, His Bike was so Rough, He said nobody would nick it !, You have guessed it !. Cheers Bill.

 

[Magnetoman]

Some motorcycle events I have been to that have a "concours" type award include a short run out from the venue. The judging is done when they return from the ride. Trailer queens and bikes with "empty crankcases" don't get into the judging area.

Despite the pretense they make about "originality," the dirty little secret of all concours competitions is they only judge the exterior of a motorcycle. As for separating running bikes from empty crankcases, the internals of a bike could be a complete bodge and a bike will still run short distances so conducting a test like that only maintains the fiction that the competitions are selling. As any number of purchasers have found, all too often the interiors of great looking bikes are bodged together.

Obviously, there are practical difficulties in judging the mechanical[*] as well as the cosmetic condition of a bike for "originality." But, it's fiction to pretend authority on matters of "originality," "restoration," "over-restoration," etc. when it's only the superficial that is judged in these competitions.

[*]The mechanical condition actually could be judged without disassembling the bike. Concours competition rules often call for the competitor to supply written documentation for external features that a judge may suspect are incorrect, e.g. to show that a, say, 1929 horn was introduced toward the end of model year 1928 so it is appropriate on a 1928 bike. The photographic record I kept of my recent rebuild of a 1928 Ariel for the upcoming Cannonball Rally certainly would be sufficient for a knowledgeable judge to determine how much of the 99% of the bike that can't be seen deviates from being "factory original" (nb. as a simple example, those photographs show I used a modern piston with an oil ring rather than an original 2-ring piston).

None of the above is an argument against people who want to enter concours events, or who enjoy attending them. It's just to point out what the results of those event do, and more particularly don't, say about the "originality" of a given machine.

 

[Flylow]

How many owners ride or race Lightning? Hi John, could not help myself...

 

[Somer]

I feel that a lot of people do not understand the meaning of "concours de-elegance". It was never intended to be for original factory bikes or cars. The translation "concours " a row or line "elegance" the most pretty. As part of the award for the most superlative motorcycle at Salon Prive , I was given a book called The concours of elegance. It chronicals the history of these events ,virtually all the big time winners were custom built.

The concept of concours has indeed "evolved". Somewhere I have a picture of a chrome plated HRD that won the club concours. Originally the concept was used for modified and updated vehicles. That is now known as French Judging. Many shows have gone to objective criteria and shows that use it have awards with some credibility.

 

[Somer]

Some motorcycle events I have been to that have a "concours" type award include a short run out from the venue. The judging is done when they return from the ride. Trailer queens and bikes with "empty crankcases" don't get into the judging area. Maybe an inanimate motorcycle becomes an objet d'art?
Originality and polish do not interest me too much as keeping things going or making bikes better to ride are my priority.
Having said that I sometimes have to admire the attention to detail and the huge amount of time (and money?) some people spend on their creations.

In events I've judged we always make them start them. When I consulted on a bike for Pebble Beach, I told the owner we should ride it in. Guess who got to ride it in the dark . Setting of car alarms along the way.

 

[Bill Thomas]

Back in 1964, They just picked the best bike, Best "A" !!, Then owned by your membership sec',
He even let me ride it once. Cheers Bill.

 

[Somer]

In events I've judged we always make them judge them. When I consulted on a bike for Pebble Beach, I told the owner we should ride it in. Guess who got to ride it in the dark . Setting of car alarms along the way.

Should have read we make them start them. They also must ride across stand.

 

[roy the mechanic]

I have always preferred the pebble beach system of riding past the judges, and riding back to accept the award. Just as happened at Salon Prive where the norvin was awarded the most superlative motor cycle.

 

[Tug Wilson]

Just read these posts and recall that in the 60's at a Vincent meet in Beaulieu near Southampton I was pillion on my friends beautifully restored Rapide with cadmium plate fixings self stoved paint etc
and he was not happy that his bike came second to "stainless Stevens" model.

 

[Sakura]

Despite the pretense they make about "originality," the dirty little secret of all concours competitions is they only judge the exterior of a motorcycle. As for separating running bikes from empty crankcases, the internals of a bike could be a complete bodge and a bike will still run short distances so conducting a test like that only maintains the fiction that the competitions are selling. As any number of purchasers have found, all too often the interiors of great looking bikes are bodged together ..

I worked for a well known classic dealer. He buys most bikes unchecked, at a distance. Usually the shinier they are, the worse the mechanical condition. Many have frightening safety faults, one of the most common being front brake cable nipples that pull off with moderate pressure only, brakes that are full of grease, linings glued on with Araldite, you name it, we've seen it. The phrase " buyer beware" was probably never truer than when buying a "restored" classic bike. Most of these characters didn't have clue back in the day, but had no tools, now they think the purchase of cheap tools confers them with some elevated skill level!!