At a show in America it came down to two Corvettes. The winner had cleaner water in its radiator! Cheers, Stu.
Concours Judging
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TouringGodet
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I don’t know if this story is true or not, but a famous section member, Bob Kountz, worked for a very prestigious auto restorer, Hill & Vaughn, Phil Hill was an owner. They did a Gullwing Mercedes for a client that entered it at Pebble Beach. For that class, it came down to two cars. The winner was the car Bob worked on, and the deciding factor was the toolkit. The loser had a lead hammer for the knock off rims, and the hammer was a standard looking hammer, all nice. Bob knew that the hammers as supplied by Mercedes were rather crudely made, and he replicated the hammer.
Funny how we all think..........A fully resorted car, or bike..........matching numbers all the correct parts used and so on, All nice and shinny like new, and worth lots of money.............You do the same thing to an early Fender or Gibson guitar with a known and significant history............say a Strat owned and played by Jimmy Hendrix with loads of ware and tare, buckle marks on the back, fret's worn down and the odd chip and ding from playing.................and you have de-valued it by a huge amount. Perhaps that's why the Ehret Lightning sold for so much because its history was retained, well visually anyway............Obviously a guitar is a lot more personal item than a bike or car, a bit like a well worn tool that we use over and over. Like some of the tools I inherited from my grandfather...................
Obviously a guitar is a lot more personal item than a bike or car, a bit like a well worn tool that we use over and over. Like some of the tools I inherited from my grandfather...................
Depends on the item in question and the person. When my father passed my mom had his piano out of the house quicker than that. But I have all but one bike, his Yamaha dirt bike. He rode that just enough to break it in. He didn't care for it. I sold it on to finance some parts for his Shadow. Now his Shadow, Bonnie, and Guzzi, those are keepers. I still have the only two helmets he ever had and his leather jacket. I've got all his tools and some of my grandfather's.
The bikes and the tools speak more to me about my father than his piano. Try as he might he couldn't play. But he loved that Shadow, rode the Bonnie to work regularly, the Guzzi was the last bike he bought. He got to weak to hold it up, so didn't ride it much.
Steven
I would have preferred preserving the bike but it was buckets and boxes of rust with
many missing parts that took years to complete. Now I'm told I over restored it.
I'll pass on concourse shows and savor the history uncovered during the restoration.
many missing parts that took years to complete. Now I'm told I over restored it.
I'll pass on concourse shows and savor the history uncovered during the restoration.
Super Bike, When I built my L/ning rep, I thought not to make it too posh, In case I fell off it, Which I did, But only a few times, But now it's a road bike, I am making it look better all the time, But not to your standard,
Very nice. Cheers Bill.
Very nice. Cheers Bill.
Since the ICJAG has been mentioned, I extracted the following from their guidelines for judging motorcycles:
promote the proper preservation and correct restoration of motorcycles
deductions will be made for over-restoration
Motorcycles are meant to be ridden
I highlighted the terms that are totally subjective and thus subject to disagreement now and certainly subject to change with changing fashions in the future.
There's a tendency for people to believe that we've arrived at current judging standards by a process of eliminating incorrect ones and thus that we're closer to "true" standards today than at any time in the past. But, this isn't any more true than it is in other areas of fashion. There's no reason to expect today's clothing styles to be any more permanent than were Nehru jackets, bell bottoms, or paisley ties. Not very long ago AMCA standards rewarded too much chrome, Imron paint, and polished cases, so what is subjectively believed to be "proper preservation," "correct restoration," or "over-restoration" in 2018 is unlikely to be identical to how those statements are interpreted in in 2028.
The "motorcycles are meant to be ridden" statement is no less subjective than the others. An alternative statement just as well could be "motorcycles were meant to be sold for a profit," as evidenced by the fact when that no longer was possible the manufacturer went bankrupt whether or not the motorcycles they previously made were ridden. The designer of a concept bike may well have not meant for it ever to be ridden, only to be displayed. If gasoline costs the equivalent of $500/gallon in 50 years people may still like to look at them at shows but insisting they be able to start would be an unrealistic standard to apply. The point being, ICJAG's third statement above is completely subjective and subject to change just as are the other statements.
However, despite the ever-changing standards, a self-styled organization like the ICJAG is useful because it helps ensure everyone who enjoys preparing bikes to "concours standard" today is judged against the same set of expectations. And, if you don't like the standards an organization like ICJAG (or AMCA) uses in 2018 then wait a decade because history tells us they will change as the attitudes of motorcycle owners change and as new people with different opinions replace old ones as judges.
promote the proper preservation and correct restoration of motorcycles
deductions will be made for over-restoration
Motorcycles are meant to be ridden
I highlighted the terms that are totally subjective and thus subject to disagreement now and certainly subject to change with changing fashions in the future.
There's a tendency for people to believe that we've arrived at current judging standards by a process of eliminating incorrect ones and thus that we're closer to "true" standards today than at any time in the past. But, this isn't any more true than it is in other areas of fashion. There's no reason to expect today's clothing styles to be any more permanent than were Nehru jackets, bell bottoms, or paisley ties. Not very long ago AMCA standards rewarded too much chrome, Imron paint, and polished cases, so what is subjectively believed to be "proper preservation," "correct restoration," or "over-restoration" in 2018 is unlikely to be identical to how those statements are interpreted in in 2028.
The "motorcycles are meant to be ridden" statement is no less subjective than the others. An alternative statement just as well could be "motorcycles were meant to be sold for a profit," as evidenced by the fact when that no longer was possible the manufacturer went bankrupt whether or not the motorcycles they previously made were ridden. The designer of a concept bike may well have not meant for it ever to be ridden, only to be displayed. If gasoline costs the equivalent of $500/gallon in 50 years people may still like to look at them at shows but insisting they be able to start would be an unrealistic standard to apply. The point being, ICJAG's third statement above is completely subjective and subject to change just as are the other statements.
However, despite the ever-changing standards, a self-styled organization like the ICJAG is useful because it helps ensure everyone who enjoys preparing bikes to "concours standard" today is judged against the same set of expectations. And, if you don't like the standards an organization like ICJAG (or AMCA) uses in 2018 then wait a decade because history tells us they will change as the attitudes of motorcycle owners change and as new people with different opinions replace old ones as judges.
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None............. The comment about bikes being "Over restored" is actually quite true. People tend to look at the failings of an original and try to improve on it. The paint jobs we do have a far better finish than that done by the factory. It is near impossible to replicate what the factory did, you can only do the best with what we have now. As times change things improve, but some things actually go backward. Some of the products we have now have strict control by all the authorities like asbestos and similar, say lead based paints.......for that matter lead content fuels........ Over time things change and we can only use what is available now. We are the last of our kind so what we do to these bikes is what will remain, the younger generations most likely will not be able to carry out this kind of work due to lack of skills and /or interest.
Some motorcycle events I have been to that have a "concours" type award include a short run out from the venue. The judging is done when they return from the ride. Trailer queens and bikes with "empty crankcases" don't get into the judging area. Maybe an inanimate motorcycle becomes an objet d'art?
Originality and polish do not interest me too much as keeping things going or making bikes better to ride are my priority.
Having said that I sometimes have to admire the attention to detail and the huge amount of time (and money?) some people spend on their creations.