• New Member Special Offer

    Join the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club today, and get a special offer of 14 months for the price of 12 (your membership will expire on 31st December 2020)!

    There is a mass of information, including many thousands of technical articles which have been written since the Club started in 1948, which are only available to Members of the Club. Once you join, your membership of this forum will be upgraded and you'll get access to them, as well as many other features.

    To join, simply click HERE and follow the simple instructions.

    Ron and Linda Thomas - Membership Secretaries.
  • Welcome to the website of the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club.

    Should you have any questions relating to the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club, or Vincent H.R.D. motorcycles in general, please contact Graham Smith, Hon. Editor and Webmaster by calling 07977 001 025 or please CLICK HERE.

    You are unrecognised, and therefore, only have VERY restricted access to the many features of this website.

    If you have previously registered to use this forum, you should log in now. CLICK HERE.

    If you have never registered to use this website before, please CLICK HERE.

E: Engine Comet Mongrel


BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Was the engine in a featherbed at one time ?
When Tony first built the engine it was fitted in a modified Featherbed frame. It was always his intetntion to put it in an Ariel frame, he just needed a suitable Ariel frame and time between other projects to get around to fitting the engine in to it.
 

litnman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks for that. Is there some reason why you use hole saws instead of an annular cutter? I know the saws are cheaper, but thinking maybe an annular cutter would last longer? I did end up using hole saws instead of end mills because it was faster and less chatter on the poor old Taiwanese vertical mill, but the saws seem to take a beating.
Hole saws in bulk was very economical and worked well in ss and far less expensive than annular cutters. Especially in steep angles such as stair railings deep cut / fine tooth hole saws worked great. For softer materials I had special carbide tipped cutters made.
Interestingly I too have the same small Atlas horizontal mill as yours.
 

Cyborg

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hole saws in bulk was very economical and worked well in ss and far less expensive than annular cutters. Especially in steep angles such as stair railings deep cut / fine tooth hole saws worked great. For softer materials I had special carbide tipped cutters made.
Interestingly I too have the same small Atlas horizontal mill as yours.
Thanks. When I was dealing with my brother’s estate, I was a little overwhelmed with the contents of his shop and garage. I actually tried to sell the larger mill and considered selling the smaller one. I didn’t try that hard.. when researching the value of the Atlas, it had some pretty good write ups and apparently the one I have turns out to be one of the more desirable models, so decided to just keep it. Seldom gets used though, especially compared to the vertical mill or lathe. The previous photo was just grabbed of the net, this is mine. Currently used to display my chuck collection. The hand wheel on the front unfortunately suffered a bit during its journey across country. Now replaced with one of those alloy idlers that we normally hang on the wall for some strange reason.ECB6799A-CA2E-4265-AB4A-B6E2BBB6CC93.jpeg
 

Cyborg

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Proof of concept. New MT2 arbor sitting in there that needs to be threaded for the hole saw. Vise is a little on the large side, but the jaws on the smaller vises aren’t really deep enough. If nothing else, it will cut angles and lengths of tubing that can’t be done in the vertical mill. On a different forum there was a discussion about roller bearings and I mentioned lapping/honing them to size. The dreaded C3 thing. Anyway, the light came on... any reason why I couldn’t convert this mill to also do honing. The subject of speed came up, but I have since had a look at the RPM info plate and it doesn’t appear that speed would be an obstacle. Easy to slow it down more if I wanted to attach a rigid hone and finish cylinders. Any thoughts on the subject? Although the advantages of a Sunnen hone has been explained to me, I still think that with care and frequent pauses to check and measure things that an acceptable result can be obtained.
0634BE85-431F-44D6-9C20-C03A3ACDFAEF.jpegFC339842-84B1-4B67-B0C7-49288FA27C5D.jpeg
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Any thoughts on the subject?
If you intend on using Sunnen mandrels I'll be interested to see how you solve the problem of applying pressure to the back of the wedge in order to advance it into the part being honed. I never got that far before buying an actual Sunnen hone.
 

Cyborg

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
While you had that question rattling around in your head, it was also rattling around in mine. A modified governor from a Brigs and Stratton? Actually I was thinking of asking you what the Sunnen setup looks like, or is it buried in the bowels of the machine? At this point, I honestly have no idea. The rigid hone might work for larger stuff, but I haven’t had a chance to dig it out yet to see if I’m barking up the wrong tree on that one too.

On another note... So can I remain feeling smug, or do you have the device or a reasonable facsimile of the one in the second photo? I’m also feeling juvenile, but can live with that if I can gain some relief from my tool envy.

4A3155E1-F59A-4E32-A702-E56FAB57EA03.jpeg0E34ACEA-75F7-4ABF-ABBA-85C65D96EE73.jpeg
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I was thinking of asking you what the Sunnen setup looks like, or is it buried in the bowels of the machine?
It is buried in the bowels of the machine, but it's a rectangular rod that has a slot in it to engage the back end of the wedge on the mandrel allowing the foot pedal to push the stones up or pull them back down. There's a spring involved as well, whose force is adjusted by the knobs on the front. That is, the slotted rod pushes on the wedge via a spring whose preload is adjusted with those knobs. The absolute position of the slotted rod is determined by another knob. You crank the knob, forcing the stones up, until the dial indicator registers the displacement of something inside the housing. As the part is honed away that displacement decreases.

IOn another note... So can I remain feeling smug, or do you have the device or a reasonable facsimile of the one in the second photo?
I can't tell from the photo what the black shaft at the right end of it looks like. Overall, it looks sort of like a mechanism to make a right turn, e.g. to turn your horizontal mill into a vertical one(?). But, you'll have to let me know what it is for me to tell if I have something equivalent, or if you can sleep like a baby tonight knowing you have something I don't have (but, which I clearly would then need to find...).
 

Cyborg

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I assume somewhere amongst those springs, rods, and foot pedal, there is some sort of slip ring or throw out bearing. I’ll have a look around and see if I can find an exploded diagram. I really haven’t given it any thought, but some sort of threaded adjuster might work. I’m pretty sure the rigid hone setup would be relatively simple. The Sunnen stuff is likely more aggravation than what it’s worth. Probably why you bought the machine.

This will help clear up the doodad in the photo. It’s an ATM (axial throb magnetometer) used for breaking taps. It fits in.. usually a drill press and is used for driving taps. Pull down on the drill press quill ( handle) and the tap threads the hole. Pull up on the quill and the tap reverses out of the hole. Odd and unusual tool for odd and unusual folk who own way too many jets. There are a few whoppers in that rack.
E2CA54BC-D0C6-4269-B1B6-A4E15AB54EB4.jpeg
B8F7C1F2-F442-4DF0-9AD8-9924B9202985.jpeg
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
used for driving taps. Pull down on the drill press quill ( handle) and the tap threads the hole. Pull up on the quill and the tap reverses out of the hole.
I'd feel worse about ruining your sleep tonight, but it's your fault I had to get up from the sofa and walk out to the garage to take a photo of my Tapmatic 50X. However, mine only covers the range from a #6 screw to a 1/2" bolt so I suppose if yours does a 4-40 or 5/8" you have me beat and you can sleep well.

Tapmatic.jpg
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
You have some good tools there, My Garage is already busting !.
Funny, The other day I was going to take the Girls out, And could not open the Electric door !, To get the Car out, I have so much stuff in there, I could not get to the edge of the Garage to see what the problem was !.

I bought a barrel and Piston off the late Pat Cole, I have never used anything other than Specialloid,
So not sure I should use it ?, But I wonder if I can make it more loose with a Flexy Hone, With a drill ?,
I have never used one before, But I like the Piston to be sloppy, Rather than a Nip up,
I have always used Race clearance.
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Cyborg started this thread as Comet-Mongrel.
Time to create a new thread for your "Tool Talk" guys.
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Cyborg started this thread as Comet-Mongrel.
Time to create a new thread for your "Tool Talk" guys.
Cyborg and I may have temporarily digressed/transgressed, but the last couple of posts were the result of a conversation he and I were having on another forum about honing roller bearing races to change their clearance, a subject of direct interest to this mongrel thread. He's rightfully jealous I have my own Sunnen hone, but I'm jealous he has his Comet so far along.

But, we shortly would have returned to discussing honing of bearings and bushes for Comets (and other Vincents). But, speaking of digressions, somehow Ariels entered this thread without incurring anyone's wrath, so I think Cyborg should be cut a little slack on the content, especially since it's his thread, after all. It's hard to imagine any thread going for 29 pages without an innocent digression or two.

But, I digress...
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Cyborg and I may have temporarily digressed/transgressed, but the last couple of posts were the result of a conversation he and I were having on another forum about honing roller bearing races to change their clearance, a subject of direct interest to this mongrel thread. He's rightfully jealous I have my own Sunnen hone, but I'm jealous he has his Comet so far along.

But, we shortly would have returned to discussing honing of bearings and bushes for Comets (and other Vincents). But, speaking of digressions, somehow Ariels entered this thread without incurring anyone's wrath, so I think Cyborg should be cut a little slack on the content, especially since it's his thread, after all. It's hard to imagine any thread going for 29 pages without an innocent digression or two.

But, I digress...
Nice post, my comment was not meant as a slap on the wrist, a gentle reminder that original thread is "Comet Mongrel". Like any conversation at a club night or in a pub, conversations can stray off-piste. (Guilty myself. :oops: )
Ten or so posts somewhat off topic deserve a thread of their own, easy to do and when looking for information makes searching through 500+ posts easier ...... but as you so rightly say, we digress.
 

Cyborg

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Not trying to sound contrary, but don’t see the discussions regarding tools and equipment being at odds with the thread. My desire to rattle MM’s cage might cause me to wander off topic slightly, but to me tools, equipment, and using that equipment to make tools are pretty much intertwined with Vincent engines. As a result of this discussion I have turned an under-utilized mill into a hum dinger of a tube notcher. Granted I’m past the tube notching part of this exercise, but there was a fair amount of it and now future notching will be less painful. I’m looking forward to finishing this train wreck and moving on to a Lightning replica of sorts. Starting with a pair of NOS twin crankcases that right off the hop will need to be crammed into a milling machine. I can’t see getting through an engine assembly thread without numerous discussions/sidebars about tools and equipment. For me personally, seeing how folks make and utilize tools to assemble these engines is more interesting than the assembly of the engine itself... but then I get excited seeing how people use ingenuity to clamp things into a mill. The lapping/honing thing is still of great interest to me. Although I was able to (I believe) successfully lap the Comet’s new big end bearing to fit by using a setup that would cause Rube Goldberg swoon with envy, it is a subject that is again intertwined (or it should be) with Vincent engines. Taking an off the shelf C3 bearing and installing it in a case without the desired interference fit is questionable. I realize that not everyone has the opportunity to play with this stuff and that causes me some guilt. Not sure it should, but it does.
The A/F gauge thread also got a got a little esoteric or nebulous if you prefer, but I learned a lot from it. Any way...speaking of digressing
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As a serial digression activist I understand where you are coming from. But moderators are the touchstone and Ed is right if someone in 2 years time wants to learn about tube notching a thread called 'Comet Mongrel' is not the first place to look.... nor indeed items on digression:eek:
 

Cyborg

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I totally get that and searching can be frustrating, but on the flip side, if I were to do a thread on the upcoming engine, does that mean I would have to run a parallel thread about machining the cases, honing the bearings, making special tools, etc. Does the original poster not get some say (within reason) in what the thread includes? If I can’t high jack my own thread with a discussion about related tools and equipment, then to be honest that dissuades me from doing it. Not saying that to be difficult, it’s just that for me, it doesn’t make sense that they should be mutually exclusive.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
It's tricky, But I see what Ed means, After 10 posts maybe we needed to be back on track.
Sorry I know I drift a bit.
 

Top