Come on everyone - encourage a friend to join and let's break 1000

[VinParts]

Members.

Stuart, read my post again. I did not say anything about money. I can not give you the facts as I have left them at work but I do know that more postings are put in the NON members forums than in the members forums and by one hell of a lot and to me this is not a good thing.
I sell parts to both members and non members but if a non member is putting info on the forum that could get new members like you into trouble then in my view they should be told to sod off.
As for the forum getting young new members to join the VOC I think that you will find that the ever growing high price for Vincents will stop this. Vincents are now classed as fine art so the days of picking up a Shadow for 1K are long gone.
As a parts supplier I would like to see all Vincents used and not just bought for an investment but more and more Vincents are just bought because of the resale value.
I own a Shadow, I paid 20K for it and I ride it. I thrashed it round the IOM and it will get used all year if I get the chance, but going back to posting on the forum I do think that for the good of the club we need to limit the postings by non members.

 

[pifinch]

I must just say that I agree with "Black Lightnings" comments totally, if I had never seen a certain Mr. Osbournes Vincent parked at various locations around Ilford in the late 60's / early 70's I might not have caught the bug, it took me till 1973 to aquire one myself, but there was no forum then I could dive into to find out about these wonderful machines. so it became a case of asking silly questions to try to make the creature behave itself, fast forward, 2008, it's still got a mind of its own & thats why I still ask silly questions, We have to inspire potential owners that Phil Vincent got it very nearly right! (My 30 year old son has still not forgiven me for having the name Philip Vincent Bruce Main Smith!) - But I was tired & emotional at the registrars office!

 

[Pete Appleton]

Less Diplomatic

if a non member is putting info on the forum that could get new members like you into trouble then in my view they should be told to sod off.

Russell has clearly got over his 'excessive diplomacy' stage!
Whilst not wishing to turn this in to a 'love-in' I agree with everyone (partially). It is good to show potential members what the club is about but if they want to get more involved then they should join. If they have managed to buy even the rattiest basket case Comet then they must have at least £5000 to spare. Surely the £28 membership will not scare them off. Conversely, the casual passers by with no interest other than to fill some time between 'surfing the net' and studying '100 ways to amuse yourself with a goat' ( I don't know if that site exists but it probably does) will go elsewhere.
I agree that it is important for new owners to have somewhere to go for advice but if things continue as they are then the quality of that advice will deteriorate.
Take a look at the Forum members list. You will recognise many of the well known and experienced members names who have registered but not bothered returning since 2007. More a case, I think, of not 'Lets get 1000 members' but lets get 500 good quality members to keep coming back.
The suggestion of restricting non-members to 'read only' in most of the threads with, perhaps, one general access forum that we can opt in or out of seems sensible.

Time for a vote perhaps ? or am I confusing this with a democracy ?

Pete

(for the purposes of this 'quality' has nothing to do with tatoo count but genuine interest in the marque)

 

[Peter. C]

Replacement Tyres

I dont know if it is generally known that most tyres are date stamped with month and year of manufacture. This was learnt at a talk given by Avon Tyres.. It could be worth checking tyres before purchasing as they could be a few years old when bought. Avon will not accept warranty claims after five years old.

 

[John Appleton]

Is it my imagination , or have we managed to scare off that little group of annoying know all know nothing non members that caused this controversy . I am sure you all know who I mean ! Either that or Graham has taken unilateral action and banished them from the forum . There seems to me to be a marked improvement in the postings over the last few nights . I am encouraged .
John

 

[BlackLightning998]

Hi Russ, I beg to differ.....

Stuart, read my post again. I did not say anything about money. I can not give you the facts as I have left them at work but I do know that more postings are put in the NON members forums than in the members forums and by one hell of a lot and to me this is not a good thing.
I sell parts to both members and non members but if a non member is putting info on the forum that could get new members like you into trouble then in my view they should be told to sod off.
As for the forum getting young new members to join the VOC I think that you will find that the ever growing high price for Vincents will stop this. Vincents are now classed as fine art so the days of picking up a Shadow for 1K are long gone.
As a parts supplier I would like to see all Vincents used and not just bought for an investment but more and more Vincents are just bought because of the resale value.
I own a Shadow, I paid 20K for it and I ride it. I thrashed it round the IOM and it will get used all year if I get the chance, but going back to posting on the forum I do think that for the good of the club we need to limit the postings by non members.

Hi Russ,

I didn't say anything about money either so we are quits (beyond quoting the price of joining the club). It's not about money - it's about there being a compelling reason or reasons to join.

Remember that we don't know if all VOC members register as such on the Forum.

I don't agree with your argument on "younger" (relative to "older") members - you bought a Shadow recently and paid a higher price than many VOC owners will have. I bought a Rapide last year at what I think was a fair market price. Where's there are two of us, I'd suggest there are more and unless the VOC embraces and then actively encourages this, then personally I don't hold out too much hope for the future of the the club, the marque or the people who make a living out the either/both.

You are a great ambassador for the VOC and Vincent Ownership, I'd like to think I am too - there are more people like us out there and the Club must attract them to survive long term.

Sure there are people in it for the money only, I read in a Car Magazine only last month that Car Dealers are moving into bikes as the margins and appreciation are better - they had a picture of the VOC Shadow in the article - but that's life. They're not the only buyers though.

I suggested people read the objects of the club - in my view wide open Forum membership and posting rights deliver these objects 100%. Restricting it to members only does not.

I don't think that higher prices will prevent younger members at all. Like all things in life it may make it more difficult for them, might influence the type of younger members we get, might force us to adjust our thoughts about what constitues a "younger" member but there will still be younger people interested in all things Vincent. Some of those will aspire to owning one and some of those will get to the point where they can fulfill that desire - I'd like the Forum to be one way that we help and encourage that.

I vote for continuing to welcome, inspire, encourage, assist and be generally friendly to them. If the odd one misbehaves, then take them out - but don't set the rules for the minority.

As for getting me in trouble - well I'm big enough to cope I guess - and the learning is that it will teach me to check my own facts and writing better, so I'll wear a hair shirt and blame myself. Writing something that is not factually correct is not acceptable, even if it was in genuine error. I don't accept it at work so won't condone it from myself.

Interestingly I had just two (that's 2!!) e-mails on the MPH column. One said "well done" and the other said "you're wrong" - so on balance it's a 50/50 call!!!!

Oh - and for those of the Forum who are for restricted membership - well the non-member decided (having read this thread and others) that this is not a club he wanted to join anyway and has conformed to your request to "sod off". He won't be joining the club, visiting a section or providing the details of his Vincent to the register.

Personally - I think that is a great shame and the VOC is the poorer for it. He might even have had a tattoo.

Coming back to your note, the point I am obviously really missing here is why is it a bad thing to have the balance of postings in favour of non-members?

Yes, we should encourage VOC members to use the Forum, I'm a huge supporter of that - but we need to face the fact that many of them do not have a computer, don't have access to a computer, don't want to get involved in a computer - so until the age profile of the club changes (and surely it will) then that will only change around the edges?

We can be a mid-period adopter or wait till things overtake us. I vote to leave things as they are.

Cheers to all

Stuart

 

[VinParts]

Time to wind it up.

Stuart, in my view we have a VOC forum run by a VOC member that has more non members than members posting info and in my view this is not a good thing.
If you want to take advice from said non members about how to do something when they don't have a clue what they are talking about ie metric bolts holding brake drums on all for a few pounds saving then that is up to you.
When I give an answer to a question I try to make it the right answer, not some sly remark that does not help at all.
I do wonder why the forum has so many sub forums for the general public and had a chat to Graham about cutting them down, yes a new member has the right to find out as much info as they can and if they are true about the club then why not join the VOC.
Me thinks that your non member that now after reading posts on the forum has decided not to join the VOC was never going to join in the first place.
Now to prices, you say that "I paid a higher price than many VOC owners will have". Are you talking about the past or the future?
Only this week have I had three new customers asking for pricelists and when asked how much they paid for the bike I got 23K for a Rapide and 31K & 34K for Shadows, all three owners sounded like they were a bit older than me. So in my view I am right in saying that a Vincent has become a piece of fine art and to buy one you will need a large stack of cash. More to the point is that people buy them to invest some cash and if they don't get used then why own one?
To end this thread for the weekend at least you say "why is it a bad thing to have a balance of postings in favour of non members"? All I can say is that the forum is run by a VOC member, it is payed for by VOC members ie sponsers like Conways, John Healy, the VOCSC and Vinparts so in my view more of the forum should only be open to members of the VOC. I pay well over the odds to have a one page add in MPH but at the end of the day it is members of the voc that see it and with luck might use it to place an order.
I am going to end this thread with this, if you don't even own a Vincent or you do but don't want to join the VOC then do us all a favour and don't post on this forum.
It would be good to see VOC members ONLY posting in the VOC members only sections but as only a few people have joined in with this thread I doubt that this will happen, must be one hell of a long fence
Off to get the Vin ready for the Welsh, a two hour ride for you Stuart, shall I book you a room?

Russ

 

[BlackLightning998]

The end is nigh........

Stuart, in my view we have a VOC forum run by a VOC member that has more non members than members posting info and in my view this is not a good thing.
If you want to take advice from said non members about how to do something when they don't have a clue what they are talking about ie metric bolts holding brake drums on all for a few pounds saving then that is up to you.
When I give an answer to a question I try to make it the right answer, not some sly remark that does not help at all.
I do wonder why the forum has so many sub forums for the general public and had a chat to Graham about cutting them down, yes a new member has the right to find out as much info as they can and if they are true about the club then why not join the VOC.
Me thinks that your non member that now after reading posts on the forum has decided not to join the VOC was never going to join in the first place.
Now to prices, you say that "I paid a higher price than many VOC owners will have". Are you talking about the past or the future?
Only this week have I had three new customers asking for pricelists and when asked how much they paid for the bike I got 23K for a Rapide and 31K & 34K for Shadows, all three owners sounded like they were a bit older than me. So in my view I am right in saying that a Vincent has become a piece of fine art and to buy one you will need a large stack of cash. More to the point is that people buy them to invest some cash and if they don't get used then why own one?
To end this thread for the weekend at least you say "why is it a bad thing to have a balance of postings in favour of non members"? All I can say is that the forum is run by a VOC member, it is payed for by VOC members ie sponsers like Conways, John Healy, the VOCSC and Vinparts so in my view more of the forum should only be open to members of the VOC. I pay well over the odds to have a one page add in MPH but at the end of the day it is members of the voc that see it and with luck might use it to place an order.
I am going to end this thread with this, if you don't even own a Vincent or you do but don't want to join the VOC then do us all a favour and don't post on this forum.
It would be good to see VOC members ONLY posting in the VOC members only sections but as only a few people have joined in with this thread I doubt that this will happen, must be one hell of a long fence
Off to get the Vin ready for the Welsh, a two hour ride for you Stuart, shall I book you a room?

Russ

Hi Russ,

What a great world we have when different opinions can rub along together.

I wouldn't do the Winter Welsh would I - might rain and I'd get wet!! Seriously I have a little 5 year old girl who I only really see at weekends and so that's why you see me at one day events but not rally's really - I can get a "pass" for 1 day but it takes a bit of work to get a weekend. If there was a "day visitor" agenda then I would attend more rallies, but I'm a little reluctant to set off for the day only to find people are out on a ride when I get there. I can quite understand that rally organisers may be reluctant to publish a programme which, say, has an organised ride out leaving at 11.00am for just the same reason that this might increase the day visitors and decrease the rallyists. However I have got a whole week for the Manx this year and the Vincent is taking me.

You make a very valid point about funding - I hadn't thought of it that way - those funding the Forum have a powerful say in the way it works, firstly by lobbying and secondly by supplying or witholding your advertising pounds.

The prices of Vincents - I refer to past history. Of course it is logically true that many people have more spare cash when they are a little older and there are less other pressing demands on their money. I still think that where there are two, you and me, there are more and so the future of the club lies with younger people in the long run. To return to my theme on the world we live in, I think the world is big enough to accommodate people who ride them and those who don't. I've met at least one member who would love to ride a Vincent but is simply no longer physically able - but he still had a bike, restored it, loved it and fired it up and sat on it. I think there is space for us all. Investors - well it's a free world and if the club is not prepared to get involved in the dishonesty and lack of integrity that surrounds transactions like the White Shadow then I don't think we can globally criticise people who's motives are transparently about making money.

To your point of ending the debate, fine I guess but I'm still 180 degrees to you on the Forum - I think if we support the objects of the VOC then we should look to ourselves and ask why someone who is interested in Vincents or owns a Vincent would not want to join the VOC and do something about that, it is where the future of the VOC lies.

Cheers and have a superb, safe Vincenteering weekend at the Winter Welsh (as I fully expect you will).

Like you, I'll shut down on this one now - or have our debate by email seperately as it looks like it's you me and 2 others on the subject.........

Cheers

Stuart

 

[Avery]

Lets Break 1000

THE OTHER PROBLEM WE SEEM TO HAVE UP HERE IS THERE IS NO LOCAL SECTION WITHIN 100 MILES - I KNOW I COULD START MY OWN SECTION BUT ONCE AGAIN TIME COMES INTO IT

MICK THE VIN

Hi Mick,

If you are thinking about a local section let me know when and I will try and make the meets depending on work/family commitments, I'm only a couple of miles up the road towards Blyth.

Keep me posted

Bri

 

[Vic Youel]

Northumberland section

Hi Mick,

If you are thinking about a local section let me know when and I will try and make the meets depending on work/family commitments, I'm only a couple of miles up the road towards Blyth.

Keep me posted

Bri

I visited Mark and Barbara Goodson in 2003......he lives near you. I'm sure he and his wife would join you. Mark gave an awful lot to the VOC in the past in terms of wisdom and managment expertise.

What glorious motorcycling roads you have up there in the north (or is it Scotland?)

cheers

Vic