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Advice on fitting new petrol taps


BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi All,

Tanks off the Rapide to do a few jobs. I wondered if anyone can give me some advice on fitting new petrol taps?

I ordered and got a set of new taps when I first got the bike in June last year - I used to get my bits then from the Spares Company and in my ignorance simply asked for a pair of taps - didn't think I had to ask for the washers too, seperately.

So I guess the first thing I now need are a pair of A27 washers?

The taps I took off (worn and leaking) appear to have PTFE tape on both the upper thread (going into the tank) and the lower, fixing to the supply pipe. Do members recommend using PTFE when putting it all back together again?

Finally the new taps appear to have ben assembled with a bit of grease, when you rotate the tap to on and look through the bore you can see some grease sitting in there and the bore is not clean. I would have thought it best to try and clean this in a bit of petrol and a lint free rag before fitting them on the tank - views?

Regards

Stuart
 

Ken Tidswell

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Petrol taps

It is a recommendation that all taps are a 1/4" bore. 1/4 BSP washers are fine with a little Locktite pipe seal on them and PTFE tape as required . Some people fit 1/4 BSP taps for gas appliances . These are a true quarter bore , have an s/s ball valve in them and O rings to seal. One would need a reserve tower fitted for safety. Personally i have used lever type taps opened to 1/4 with a drill through them, not for the faint hearted. Ken
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Any ideas if the ones from the Spares Co. are 1/4" bore

Thanks Ken,

Any ideas if the Spares Co. taps are 1/4" bore then? Not sure my pillar drill could do the job personally! (Let alone me driving it).

Cheers

Stuart
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Taps

I use the gas taps Boggler refers to. They need a male/male crossover then standard fuel lines can be used. They're 1/4" bore, don't leak, and are very easy to operate. They are said to seize in petrol (as opposed to petroil) but I've had no problem and suspect it is another of those things that could happen, but doesn't. They are also significantly cheaper than "real" fuel taps - the ones that leak.
 

Len Matthews

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
These gas taps are known as mini-ball valves and can be bought at most plumber's supplies shops. I agree with previous comments;they neither leak or seize. Usually, it's necessary to turn the lever through 180 degrees (best left off when inserting in your tank) but this is no problem. Make sure that get those threaded 1/4" gas each end-there are several variations.:)
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks Len

Hi Len,

Thanks for your response. I've ordered a pair of gas taps from Russ and will have a look at them alongside the lever taps I have which I got from the Spares Company last year. I must admit to not having seen the gas taps on someones bike and so pictures of a plumbing solution are filling the imagination - if they are neat, look good and do the job I may well go that way.

I'm not sure if the lever's I got are 1/4 bore or not, and I have heard the fuel starvation issue - especially when pressing hard.

I suspect that the taps I have taken off are the very same ones that my Dad and I fitted in the 1980's - they are not petrol tight as you might expect and also the gauzes were pretty clogged when I got them out which cannot have been helping a smooth performance.

Thanks for your continued interest and advice.

Looking forward to tomorrow and a day spent on the bike in the company of a VOC member who knows what he is doing and is coming over to be my "mentor" for the day.

Cheers

Stuart
 

nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have popped a photo of the mini gas tap on my Comet in miscellaneous 2008 modifications.or click photos in last 7 days and scroll through..See what you think..John
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Petrol Taps

I have been happy with the "leakproof taps" from Vin-Parts.

What a blessing that that the wacky metric world adapted the BSP standard! It sure makes it easier and cheaper to buy things for our old bikes than if they went another way.:D
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Looks very neat to me

Hi John,

Thanks for that - looks very neat to me.
Ever had any fuel starvation issues with the bore size on them?

Thanks for your help.

Stuart

I have popped a photo of the mini gas tap on my Comet in miscellaneous 2008 modifications.or click photos in last 7 days and scroll through..See what you think..John
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Gas taps

You'll find them on the Plumb World website. They're 1/4" bore. Although the male end is BSP taper, they work fine with a spot of Loctite hydraulic seal. The thread comes up to full diameter when it is almost fully home. Then you need a male-male connection to couple them up to the standard Vin fuel lines. Since i had a couple "in stock" changing over to the new taps took about 30 minutes.
 

nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The ones I got are male each end, one end is actually tapered so that the fuel union seats nicely.I run a Comet so fuel starvation has never been a problem even cruising:D at 80. I only have one tap on at a time.John
 
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nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thinking about fuel starvation. I had to get a new 229 float bowl and before I fitted it I decided to measure the 4 holes in the base union.
A 1/4inch bore petrol tap has a opening with an area of 0.049 square inches.The 4 holes in the base union appear to be about 0.078thou diameter which would give an area of 0.0047 x 4 = 0.019 square inches.I expect everyone to double check my maths as I'm not always the greatest.But if I am correct fuel starvation from the taps may not be the problem,the size of the union holes may be..
The holes would need to be opened to 1/8 inch to equal a 1/4 tap.
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Yes the holes in the float bowls on the original carbs have holes with a smaller total cross sectional area than the petrol taps, but the carbs are lower than the taps and so have a greater head of fuel above them and so the fuel will flow into the bowls at a faster rate. Any restrictions upline (ie smaller bore fuel taps) will have a big affect on the flow of fuel in the float bowl holes. This is only my limited knowledge of fluid dynamics, maybe somebody who understands it more will comment.

Also if using the gas taps from plumbers, they don't usually come with filters (unlike the originals which had filters protruding into the petrol tank). So either fit filters to the tops of the taps or ensure any filtration downline is good. A friend suffered from this last year in the IOM.

Regards,
Simon.
 

nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Yes I agree.I have 2 ugly great filters on mine,I was told the small square type are next to useless.
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks to all - I've decided

Thanks to everyone who replied and contributed. I had a good look at a pair of gas taps and whilst I can see they are superior in construction I did not like the look of them, and could not see an easy way of filtration. One WLS member said he had taken off the filters from an old pair and soldered them onto gas taps before fitting. Anyway, the VOSC replacements appeared to be of better design than the ones I took off (which look very much like the ones my Dad fitted in the 1970's) so I opted to replace with like for like. They look to me like the rotating section is sealed with an O ring. Anyway I am not planning to do huge mileage and don't mind contemplating replacing them every couple of years if that's what happens.

Regards

Stuart
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Fuel flow

Without disputing anything else said, my personal experience has been that I only ever nipped up a motor after a couple of miles cruising at 60 mph. The fuel tap was almost completely blocked. In more normal riding you'll hear it popping on the over-run long before any damage is done. I think the concern about inadequate fuel flow stems from US sprint experience. Since a Vin will do something between 45 and 55 mpg in normal use, the equivalent of 90 to 110 mpg if it were a single, I think the desire for fuel taps like sea-****s is misplaced. Maybe if you spend much of your time thrashing full bore up Shap it's a concern, but not otherwise. My concerns, addressed by using gas taps, was that every other damned tap I used, leaked.
 

Len Matthews

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
These gas taps don't have filters which is not a big problem if you are running with modern carbs with integral filters(Monoblocs,Concentrics,ect.) but with 289's &276's watch out if you have had your tank repainted recently. I've had a few cases where overspray inside the tank has been disolved by fuel and you end up with what looks like wet black soot in the system.The answer is to ask your painter to mask off the filler neck or put a big cork in it!
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Taps and ****s, and ignorance.

Note to censor: when one turns off the domestic water at the mains, the water board operate a stop****, not a stop****. Taps for fuel are called fuel ****s (on vintage bikes they might be called pet****s). They are not called fuel****s or *******s respectively. Huge bore taps that are used to scuttle ships by admitting sea water into the hull at high volume are called sea****s, not sea****s. "
Anyway, must rush, I'm off to stick some new stamps in my stamp al***. I got them from a dealer in S****horpe.
 
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BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
This looks like an interesting game.....

Tom,

full marks, outstanding, great fun - I think I sense a thread that could go on and on and on.

I just wish I could think of a few to add off the top of my head. Mmmm - of to the dictionary for me.

S
 

Ken Targett

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
B&Q gas ****s

Recently fitted a couple of gas ****s to my Rap. A few quid each from B&Q. They are made with 8mm compression fittings, which by good luck and despite metrication are threaded 1/4" BSP. Used a bit of PTFE tape round the tank end. Made up some neat little stainless steel levers to replace the plastic ones. Fitted the filters and "main" weir pipe from my old taps. Easy to operate. No leaks. Good flow. Very pleased. :)
 

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