Knipex

[ericg]

Well, that's your point of view. Or a view from a point.
You don't need a set of spanners for each standard, the same set will be good for BSW, BSF, and BSC fasteners so if I carry one small selection of them plus a couple of AF ones in my bike's tool box, I guess it will not be bigger than yours with your metric and AF tools since you said you "accept" American standard!
Imperial spanners, taps and dies can be found as easily as Knipex within a couple of clics and Imperial fasteners are not harder to find than any other parts for a Vincent.
Yes, British bikes are different and that's why I like them with their idiosyncrasies so with due respect to the great engineers who designed them I will not try to re-invent the Vincent.

 

[vibrac]

I suppose metinch spanners are an answer Nobody could get an BSF tap or die quicker to me than Tracy tools In fact in the mid winter chaos of the workshop (havent spent more than a few seconds daily in there since Xmas) ordering a new tap would be faster than finding one.
anyway havent metric threads diverged ? I seem to hear people talking about Jabanese metric Personally if I find a busted metric thread on one of my jap trail bikes I pick up a bsf thread insert and.......

 

[Speedtwin]

Do not bother bringing any tools with you,everyone knows Vincents are unbreakable and go on for years.

Best tools in the box are the half bottle of whiskey and some stanley knife blades, for when it all gets just too much.
Remember the full Dignatas Vincent tool kit will fit nicely in that wee sandwhich tray under the seat..

New Stanley Knife Add:

Vincent broken again?
Spent all your money at the Spares Company?
Wife/Husband left you for the postman ?
Time to buy Stanley the quality blade.

Al

 

[Peter Holmes]

Metric simply due to the practicality. It is a PITA to get decent BSW fasteners or threading tools today. So when I come across poor threads , out with the Helicoil for metric. So then I can have a small kit of metric tools on the bike when I feel the need. That is 10, 13, 17 and 19 mm spanners. No funny hexagons from BSF, BSW, BA or what not, so you´d have to hunt for obsolete spanners for each standard. I accept UNF and that is it. Amusing for me all these discussions here about obscure threads which obviously lead to several problems in the workshop or on the road. No, I am not a collector of obsolete fasteners, rather of classic bikes and metric fasteners do not spoil the spirit of the bike - unlike modern components which everybody can see as non-standard. And no, I don´t care about compromised "values" with non-standard bikes once I have to sell them. Nobody can tell what the situation will be in 20 or 30 years in this respect, so I don´t worry about that.

Vic

I think we have discussed this subject before, and it is true to say that we have differing views, you say that if you come across poor threads you Helicoil them to accept metric screws, so if you discover one thread in the RH crankcase timing cover threads, with all the others being perfect, do you set to and convert all the other good threads to metric, or would you Helicoil the one worn thread back to standard imperial, I only ask as you say you go metric for the convenience of instant availability should you need a replacement screw whilst on your travels, but that scenario would seem most unlikely with the timing chest screws, I have never lost, or had a screw fail whilst on route to anywhere in 57 years, and I doubt that I ever will, it just seems such an extreme action for no logical reason, if you are using socket cap head screws you might have to carry an additional Allen key, but they are neither large nor heavy.

 

[oexing]

Peter,
in case of my Argentinian boxes of wrecked Vincent parts it was an easy decision to go all metric as I did quite a bit of welding in places with distortion or shrinkage from this. Or mismatched parts from different bikes liked new threads in correct positions. So helicoiling was no extreme action but a simple and extremely quick repair/mod for an even better component as in industry for reinforcing threads they have helicoils as standard, especially for aluminium parts. So why not, metric is easy to get at any hardware store, same with taps and dies, just 10 minutes with car - or have it from Ebay placed at my door in two days. Not so easy having to order that from UK , from Tracy or else, Brexit does not help much and postage costs plus handling by customs or other carriers can be frustrating. I rather order from Aliexpress, takes 2-3 weeks typically. But so far they are well organized and customs no more a problem since 2 years when the IOSS system was introduced (Import One Stop Shop) . You pay your country VAT in the order bill and Aliexpress sends VAT to the buyer´s tax man. I don´t know if Spares Co has registered in the IOSS system and its electronic data system so customs will know that VAT was charged already. This may show why I am not keen on ordering anything from UK since when I don´t have to. Speaking of IOSS, I might want to ask Michelle if they will go the customer friendly route for EU members when orders are below € 150.- for IOSS procedure.
Yes, having to replace BSF screws in roadside repairs is not very likely, don´t remember I ever lost anything in decades. In doubt I have Loctite on threads but main motif is the vast choice of screw types in metric, like Torx for Allen bolts, in timing or drive side covers. And I don´t care if somebody nags about this as I feel it does not spoil classic looks, you´d have to kneel down for checking what´s what. On most bikes I ride these days - not a lot anyway at 70 in June - there is no or not much of tools in boxes. I´d possibly check for decent selections of tools when deciding on longer holidays, unlikely as far as I can see. Even then, no real need as I can get metric tools or screws at any hardware store in no distance on the continent in the unlikely event of a road side problem. Even punctures were just two in decades I remember, so not a lot of desire to carry tools around - no imperial anyway, well , inspection caps want the correct tool certainly.
Anyway, I don´t have sleepless nights because I have binned imperial fasteners for metric hardware as the change is so quick and simple. There are thousands of Vincents around the globe, most with imperial stuff on. So there is no big argument why preserving obsolete fasteners might be so important for mankind. Tons of that stuff sit in museums and info is available in an instant from Google in case somebody cares about learning more about British standards gone grotesque in time after Whitworth started standardising threads for practicality in industry. Unfortunately the fractional dimensioning of threads, wire sizes, drills , resp. numbering them instead of giving sizes for easy caliper check looks so far from making sense in the workshop. So I developed some sort of allergy when dealing with these standards. UNF is allright for me in some way, had that on the Jag E-Type but no desire to deal with ridiculous Vincent fasteners when I can help it.
Yes, these are my views only, from the metric workshop life , but it is up to the owner and his equipment to do as he likes, no pressure from anywhere I´d say. Vincents are no Rembrandts or Leonardo da Vincis, masses of them left. So you can have them as you like them. My bikes will be in line of their time period in looks hopefully in near future as I see modern components a clash of styles but all standard is not my orientation, the overall looks from a distance should be consistent I think.

Vic

 

[Magnetoman]

that ISO standard was introduced a few decades ago.

Actually, almost six decades ago, in the mid-1960s. Prior to that each country had its own metric standard. In most cases the diameters and pitches were the same, but for some fasteners there were difference between DIN, JIS, French, Swiss, etc. And that's not counting Löwenherz fasteners with the, ahem, logical thread angle of 53° 8′, used by Germans where British used BA (47.5°)and Americans still use numbered fasteners like 6-32 (60° ). You'll find Löwenherz on Bosch magnetos still being made after WWI, but I don't know when they were dropped in favor of small 60° metric fasteners.

 

[oexing]

Forget those Löwenherz funny things, never been relevant anywhere, just polemics here. Same with certain factory standards like on Douglases possibly. In real life most metric fasteners were compatible throughout Europe since twenties I´d say when you picked same pitch and diameter fasteners, not a lot of different variations there. Hexagons were changed at some times for common sizes, like 14 mm heads to 13 mm in fifties. But BMW had in twenties 12 mm bolt heads but 13 mm nuts for their 8 mm fasteners and 15mm bolt heads with 17 mm nuts for the 10 mm fasteners, fine threads here. But then, they came from aero production so a bit special with them. My remark about change in ISO sizes was meant about 17 mm heads gone for 16 mm and 19 mm heads now 18 mm , a few deades ago, maybe just 30 years. But you will buy mostly the old sizes 17 and 19 mm from stores and possibly for many decades still. So no argument - and no problem either way. You can use your old collection of spanners no different, sizes are clearly forged in spanners as sizes of hexagons, unlike spanners with funny imperial thread standards so you still don´t know the real size of the hexagon . Anyway, a grotesque way to design standards and just 5 percent of mankind are stuck to this to their own disadvantage.

Vic

 

[Peter Holmes]

As we are only custodians of these wonderful machines, if sometime in the future the new owner of your Vincent considered the metric conversion of all the threads to be abhorrent vandalism, would it be a simple engineering exercise to convert them all back to imperial threads, that would be important to me, I think improvements, real or imagined, are fine as long as they are reversible.

 

[oexing]

What man has created once, he´d be able to do it again. Just that we do not know today how they built the pyramides 3000 years ago - or other ancient monuments. Certainly one could return metric threads to imperial types by changing helicoils for other thread repairs- just why would one do that ? For coming generations to open up old engines and take measurements of fasteners ? You really think anybody cares about that stuff in a few decades - when they can feel lucky if they are still legal to start the thing at all ? No, I do not believe they will care about dead objects at all in 30 years or more. Whoever wants to know about obsolete fasteners just looks into his computer for information about that industry sector and shake his head about all those follies in olden times. I do not believe the supply of BSW fasteners and the like will be a good idea in a few decades, it isn´t today even in UK really. Custodians - how long - they will go into the smelters like they did in the fifties and sixties in millions. Sorry, I am not an optimist in this regard.

Vic

 

[Peter Holmes]

Just out of interest how far did you take your quest for metrication, did you convert cam spindle treads, headstock threads for fuel tank mounting bolts, footrest pivot bolts, hollow axle nuts, gearbox camplate spindle, or were imperial threads adequate for those locations.