H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres H19 Hub Bolts

G

Graham Smith

Guest
Hi all.

Am shortly to build up a couple of wheels for my Comet, and a Member of my Section suggested using Allen bolts (with the necessary plain section at the top where it goes through the hub and brake drum) and Nyloc nuts.

Not only will it be a darn sight cheaper than using the eccentric bolts, but a lot quicker.

Thoughts?

Screenshot 2022-11-11 at 10.39.19.png
 

Peter Holmes

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I am sure this has been discussed before, there was a reason put forward why this is not a good idea, but that doesn't mean it isn't - maybe something to do with the shear strength as opposed to tensile strength, but I would know absolutely nothing whatsoever about that.

Marcus Bowden did away with the nuts completely I seem to remember, he helicoiled the hubs and used Allen bolts screwed straight into the hubs.
 

chankly bore

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
IF!!! your spoke flanges, spokes and drums are correctly shaped and original, you can build the drums onto the hub and lace the rim on later. Then you'll be using original hub bolts without cursing and skinning your knuckles.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I wanted something strong and light for the racer. I wanted something with a nut that remained tight. I chose AN nuts and bolts, which are used in aviation and military applications. They have worked well.

For the hub bolt itself, the AN bolts have the correct length grip (the length of the solid shank). If the shank is instead fully threaded, it may work fine, but the fastener is not designed to deal with maximum shear on the threaded portion of the bolt.

Nyloc nuts are generally quite good. I have used them with good results. However, they are not allowed in racing, military, or aviation applications, which should give some type of hint as to their use. On a motorcycle, they work well at resisting loosening under vibration. On the Junker vibration machinery, which is designed to test a nuts resistance to turning, they do not work. They unscrew at the same rate as a plain nut. The one saving grace is that the nut quickly backs off its torque, but the nut does have enough friction to remain on the bolt. Thus, you will not lose the loose nut.

The Nyloc nuts are not used because various inspectors (race techs, FAA, or Military) cannot tell if the nut has been used more than once. It is a use-once-and-throw-it-away item. That is often hard to do as a builder.

The bolt I use is AN5-7A, an undrilled 5/16 x24 with the correct shank and thread length.

The lock nuts are MS210042-5. Then nuts are quite small. They use a wrench that is two sizes smaller than the wrench used on a 5/16" nut. This makes assembly a bit easier.

DSCN6420 (2).JPG


In the US, this hardware can be purchased at Pegasus Racing.


I would not worry too much about the decision. Most options seem to work well in practice.

David
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Re Nylock nuts
Reusing Nylon Locking Nuts
The FAA has issued guidelines on the reuse of nylon locking nuts. Specific recommendations have been published for larger sizes (7/16-20 and up), but the general rule is that you should not be able to turn the nut by hand once the locking insert engages the male threads. If you can turn the nut with your fingers, it must be replaced. When in doubt, replace!
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I have never ever used nylocs on my bikes, not worth the extra money and hassle to get these. Instead apply the suitable type of Loctite and be safe, also seals threads from rusting or sealing from oil or fuel leaks. It can be so easy today - and Loctite was available since the 50ties, unlike nylocs I guess. In applications like hub/drum bolts plain shanks are desirable and I would put Loctite on the shank as well to fill up gaps for taking up shear loads and prevent fretting between components. But this is an extra discussion about cracked bolt holes and all.

Vic
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I was present when a well known member was fettling a bike for a major rally. I commented at the "play" in the rear wheel. We "found" two missing nuts, two loose nuts and a very sad rear sprocket. To my amazement, the owner only fitted new nuts and bolts. They slid through the drum and hub with plenty of clearance. So glad I didn't ride it.
 
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