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Starting

Ady00

Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi I have a 1950 C series rapide, I have replaced the worn out concantrics with new 276's and she runs like a dream however if I fill the front float chamber ( only just mind) she wets the plugs and wont start but she fires from cold with no flooding just the air levers closed. The carbs are on standard settings so will this be ok or is something not set right with the carbs, yes this is my first Vin and a steep learning curve but an enjoyable one....Thanks...Ady
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
What's th erest of the set up?

Hi Ady,

What is the rest of the set up?

Magneto? or electronic ignition?

6 volt or 12

Plugs - what type?

Plug caps - resistor or not

I've had problems with my 276's and had lots of help may be able to help

Hi I have a 1950 C series rapide, I have replaced the worn out concantrics with new 276's and she runs like a dream however if I fill the front float chamber ( only just mind) she wets the plugs and wont start but she fires from cold with no flooding just the air levers closed. The carbs are on standard settings so will this be ok or is something not set right with the carbs, yes this is my first Vin and a steep learning curve but an enjoyable one....Thanks...Ady
 

Ady00

Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi

Thanks for getting back to me, my bike has a standard mag and uses NGK BP6EV plugs im not sure if the plug caps have resistors though. It originally had Champion plugs but appears to like NGK's better. When kicking the bike over I get a nice blue spark at the points and at the plugs....Ady
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
A few thoughts..

Hi Ady,

Here are a few thoughts, I'm no expert I should add but have had similar troubles and so have tried a few bits from advice on the Forum:

1 - Plugs
The NGK are a "projected" electrode and so better that the Champion for producing a spark which will burn off fuel. There are a number of riders who are not keen on NGK plugs and I have changed to Denso which has had a positive effect - I use Denso W20EP-ZU platinum electrode and am waiting for some WP16 which will help more with a pot running rich. Bear in mind I run electronic ignition and so you should check that the plugs will work OK for you on the magneto. The plug gap is quite important to get right too - magneto may need a different gap than electronic I think.
I got my plugs from sparkplugs.co.uk and they were very helpful with technical advice so I'd recommend them to you.

I've had good results with Denso and would recommend you tried them.

2 - Valve Clearances
Worth checking that these are set right before you do too much else, if they are not, then they can affect rich running.

3 - Carb setting
You mention that you have got new carbs - I guess from Burlen Fuel systems or Surrey Cycles or the like. It's worth checking the specification of the parts fitted - I think it should be 106 needle jet, 170 main jet and needle in the middle position. I bought new internals from Burlen Fuel systems for my original 276's and it largely resolved the problems and I am now into fine tuning. I have heard of people having problems with new parts - a bent needle was one incident I heard of so it is not safe to say that because they are new carbs then all will be well.

4 - Carb Tuning
Forgive a basic question - but have you got access to the AMAL tuning guide (also reproduced in "Know Thy Beast") as the instructions for setting the airscrew may well have an effect on you tickling the carb and flooding.

5 - Air Filters
I run with air filters - which richens the mixture - if you have likewise you may wish to try without.

6 - Fitting
Worth checking the fitting of the carbs and that all is well and correct.

7 - Magneto
I'm defintely no expert on the magneto and so will leave that for other Forum members to advise you on - but worth getting it checked for health - I have heard so many people have difficulties - personally I am blessed that my bike had been converted to Pazon ignition before I got it - and all hidden away under the magneto cowl so you can't see the change - just benefit from it.

8 - Resistors
Worth checking if the caps are resistorised - most now available have 5Kohm - but a resistorised cap and a resistorised plug may well lead a magneto to stop playing ball I would guess. They do exactly what they say on the tin - create a resistance.

9 - Float setting
As you specifically mention this it may be worth checking that the float needle seats properly and shuts off fuel - I polished mine in between the needle and the seat to make sure it was seating properly.

10 - Fixings
I had a jet block union nut (the bottom one on the carb) work its way a little loose - this can cause the bike to run rich. Worth checking that all the nuts, bolts and fixings are tight.

Finally four suggestions, firstly what about going along to your local VOC section meet and seeing if you can enlist the help of some of the membership - usually from my experience you'll find them a helpful bunch of mostly friendly people - I have a couple I have come to rely on a lot who pop over to help me in the garage and watch over to make sure I don't do anything stupid.

Secondly continue to use the Forum as you have started - lots of great advice and replies.

Thirdly - listen to everyone and read all the books - but then make your own mind up what to do, there are lots of different opinions out there.

Finally, was the bike running properly before - if so what have you changed - it is likely that what you have changed has created or made worse the problem - remember to only change one thing at a time and by a process of deduction identify where the issue is. Changing plugs, points, carbs and more all at the same time is asking for trouble.

Best of luck and keep us all posted.

Regards

Stuart

Thanks for getting back to me, my bike has a standard mag and uses NGK BP6EV plugs im not sure if the plug caps have resistors though. It originally had Champion plugs but appears to like NGK's better. When kicking the bike over I get a nice blue spark at the points and at the plugs....Ady
 
B

bigsid

Guest
Sid here . If you are seeing a " blue spark at the points " the condens

Big Sid here . If you are seeing " a spark" at your mag. points then your condensor is faulty . If she floods easily lower the bowl height by adding additional sealing washer on top of the bowls arm , also can rotate the bowl slightly down to ck. effect . Good luck . Sid .
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Two or three to try....

Hi Ady,

I'm not best placed to recommend but the three I know of are below and perhaps other members who have had personal experience could add their comments on the work standard, time for turnaround and costs?:

1 - Stuart Towner
He's currently re-building a dynamo for me and I have visited his workshops - he is extremely busy and is quoting a 3 month turnaround at least although you could take your magneto down to him and he might test it whilst you wait if you contacted him before hand - his details are in the back of MPH. I have been recommended his work by a number of people I trust and the workshop sure as anything looked the real business to me - he took the business over from his father I think.

2 - Dave Lindsley
He used to be the name to go to when I was in the VOC in the 1970's but doesn't seem to advertise in MPH now - he does advertise in Old Bike Mart and perhaps someone else on the Forum can give you a view on whether he is still worth trying.

3 - Paul Lydford - APL Magnetos
He has just rebuilt a Miller Dynamo for me - I have yet to fit and try it but speaking to him he appeared to me to be a decent guy and knows his stuff - he charged me very reasonably for the job I thought and it was done very quickly. He does the Autojumble circuit so may well be well known. Again - other members may be able to verify whether or not he is a good bloke.

If I can help you with any contact details please send me a private message.

Regards

Stuart

Thankyou Sid will get the mag checked can you recomend anybody for that.....Ady
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Sid - nice to see you on the Forum

Welcome Sid - good to see we have your experience on the Forum now too.

Cheers

Stuart

Big Sid here . If you are seeing " a spark" at your mag. points then your condensor is faulty . If she floods easily lower the bowl height by adding additional sealing washer on top of the bowls arm , also can rotate the bowl slightly down to ck. effect . Good luck . Sid .
 

PaulB

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Big Sid here . If you are seeing " a spark" at your mag. points then your condensor is faulty . If she floods easily lower the bowl height by adding additional sealing washer on top of the bowls arm , also can rotate the bowl slightly down to ck. effect . Good luck . Sid .

Welcome to the dark side Sid. ;)

Paul
 

PaulB

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Thankyou Sid will get the mag checked can you recomend anybody for that.....Ady

Barry Bassett is a member of the Coventry section and has rebuilt countless mags and dynamos, including mine with excellent results. Send me a PM and I'll give you his telephone number.

Paul
 
B

bigsid

Guest
I suggest you contact Doug Wood ,

Thanks for getting back to me, my bike has a standard mag and uses NGK BP6EV plugs im not sure if the plug caps have resistors though. It originally had Champion plugs but appears to like NGK's better. When kicking the bike over I get a nice blue spark at the points and at the plugs....Ady
Doug Wood , RR4 Box 534 , 28 Hess Rd., Boyertown , Pa., 19512 . 1- 610- 3697855 . Does superb work on magnetos and generators . Stands behind his work . Fine gentleman . High standards , Sid .
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Magnetos, observations from experience

Firstly, hello Sid, nice to see you here.
Secondly, I've used Barry Basset (2 race mags) and Dave Lindsley (1 race mag and 2 road mags) with good results.
A new name on the block is Simon Linford, in Meigle in Perthshire. If Simon does mags (he does now) like he does everything else Vincent, it'll be stunning work delivered when he tells you it'll be delivered, or sooner. He's on 01828 640 525.
FWIW I pass on what I've learned, mainly through using Lucas 2MTT mags on Manx Nortons.
Regardless apparently of who builds them, not excluding Lucas and BTH, they don't last forever, and when they starts to miss, the condenser has probably started to fail, as they do.
Establishing what the problem is may require putting it on a hotplate to test. This has happened to all of my racing mags, which tested OK at normal temperatures. Vincents aren't normally thrashed at 8000 rpm for 20 minutes at a time, so the mags last longer.
Rebuilt mags don't last as long as Lucas built mags. I've been told this is because Lucas used better condensors.
It really IS important not to use resistor plug caps (alas that means I can't use my favourite NGK caps) and non-resistor caps aren't sold in every corner shop. I think Armours sell them. I can say from personal experience that my Shadow mag, untouched for 50 years, worked OK with caps sold to me as non-resistor, which were in fact 5K ohm. When in error I used resistor plugs as well, it killed it stone dead.
One reason the bike didn't start too well, or go too well, was that on checking, the apparently original ATD had 50 degrees of advance, not 30. ATD's CERTAINLY don't last forever, and buying a new one from Roy Price is to be recommended.
Comet mags seem to give more problems than twin mags. This is something to do with the bearings, possibly too small, or possibly now irreplaceable unless the mag is modified. If anyone has more information on this, I'd be very interested, but I was told it first 10 years ago by a mag repairer, and I've heard the same from others.
Francois Grosset's coil ignition system eliminates all magneto problems.

Hi Ady,

I'm not best placed to recommend but the three I know of are below and perhaps other members who have had personal experience could add their comments on the work standard, time for turnaround and costs?:

1 - Stuart Towner
He's currently re-building a dynamo for me and I have visited his workshops - he is extremely busy and is quoting a 3 month turnaround at least although you could take your magneto down to him and he might test it whilst you wait if you contacted him before hand - his details are in the back of MPH. I have been recommended his work by a number of people I trust and the workshop sure as anything looked the real business to me - he took the business over from his father I think.

2 - Dave Lindsley
He used to be the name to go to when I was in the VOC in the 1970's but doesn't seem to advertise in MPH now - he does advertise in Old Bike Mart and perhaps someone else on the Forum can give you a view on whether he is still worth trying.

3 - Paul Lydford - APL Magnetos
He has just rebuilt a Miller Dynamo for me - I have yet to fit and try it but speaking to him he appeared to me to be a decent guy and knows his stuff - he charged me very reasonably for the job I thought and it was done very quickly. He does the Autojumble circuit so may well be well known. Again - other members may be able to verify whether or not he is a good bloke.

If I can help you with any contact details please send me a private message.

Regards

Stuart
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Ady - looks like the Forum may have done the trick for you?

Ady,

Excluding my own - clearly some great advice from years of experience and the offer to put you in touch with people who can help.

Sounds to me like the Forum may have scored?

Cheers and keep everybody posted on the outcome so they can learn from your experience too.

Stuart



Firstly, hello Sid, nice to see you here.
Secondly, I've used Barry Basset (2 race mags) and Dave Lindsley (1 race mag and 2 road mags) with good results.
A new name on the block is Simon Linford, in Meigle in Perthshire. If Simon does mags (he does now) like he does everything else Vincent, it'll be stunning work delivered when he tells you it'll be delivered, or sooner. He's on 01828 640 525.
FWIW I pass on what I've learned, mainly through using Lucas 2MTT mags on Manx Nortons.
Regardless apparently of who builds them, not excluding Lucas and BTH, they don't last forever, and when they starts to miss, the condenser has probably started to fail, as they do.
Establishing what the problem is may require putting it on a hotplate to test. This has happened to all of my racing mags, which tested OK at normal temperatures. Vincents aren't normally thrashed at 8000 rpm for 20 minutes at a time, so the mags last longer.
Rebuilt mags don't last as long as Lucas built mags. I've been told this is because Lucas used better condensors.
It really IS important not to use resistor plug caps (alas that means I can't use my favourite NGK caps) and non-resistor caps aren't sold in every corner shop. I think Armours sell them. I can say from personal experience that my Shadow mag, untouched for 50 years, worked OK with caps sold to me as non-resistor, which were in fact 5K ohm. When in error I used resistor plugs as well, it killed it stone dead.
One reason the bike didn't start too well, or go too well, was that on checking, the apparently original ATD had 50 degrees of advance, not 30. ATD's CERTAINLY don't last forever, and buying a new one from Roy Price is to be recommended.
Comet mags seem to give more problems than twin mags. This is something to do with the bearings, possibly too small, or possibly now irreplaceable unless the mag is modified. If anyone has more information on this, I'd be very interested, but I was told it first 10 years ago by a mag repairer, and I've heard the same from others.
Francois Grosset's coil ignition system eliminates all magneto problems.
 

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