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Graham Smith

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With all due respect may I suggest that this thread is another example of you whipping up angst in the troops.

Seriously, do you really not think mature people can make their own minds up about things affecting the Club, or are you the only one with a view that can be thought to be correct?

Maybe we should just censor everything and only publish material that fits with a very narrow narrative?

Come on Ernie - even if people have differing views on a range of subjects, debate is what it’s all about. There’s no need to fall out over it.

If debate is considered ‘bad’ maybe we should just shut the forum down?

Also, respectfully, Graham, pleas tell us what you wish to see as the outcome of all this argy-bargy.
Im not sure what you mean by ‘the outcome’? Surely debate amongst members regarding all club matters will go on long after I’ve retired from my post?
 

Debbie Kemp

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Probably controversial but it strikes me that there is some serious bullying going on within the ranks. Graham writes a post that is applicable to all, various people respond - yet only his posts get pulled up and argued against. The way he was treated and laughed at at the GCM was pretty disgusting - and all because he has “disrupted Exec meetings” by disagreeing with others on the Exec??? If the guy running the current VOC forum can’t put forward (and fight for) the views of those he serves, surely the Club then becomes a dictatorship?

I am all for changes in the ranks to bring forth new ideas but I can’t help but feel uncomfortable with the idea that the Editor may be stepping down just to avoid the conflict (please note, I do NOT know if this is the reason). Given the childish behaviour, the goading of non-Exec members to fight on their behalf, the way meetings have been allowed to progress and so forth, I would suggest that it isn’t necessarily the Editor who should be leaving.
 

RDB58

Active Forum User
VOC Member
Seriously, do you really not think mature people can make their own minds up about things affecting the Club, or are you the only one with a view that can be thought to be correct?

Maybe we should just censor everything and only publish material that fits with a very narrow narrative?

Come on Ernie - even if people have differing views on a range of subjects, debate is what it’s all about. There’s no need to fall out over it.

If debate is considered ‘bad’ maybe we should just shut the forum down?


Im not sure what you mean by ‘the outcome’? Surely debate amongst members regarding all club matters will go on long after I’ve retired from my post?
I really think Metric Threads are offensive. :)
 

LoneStar

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Seriously, do you really not think mature people can make their own minds up about things affecting the Club, or are you the only one with a view that can be thought to be correct?

Maybe we should just censor everything and only publish material that fits with a very narrow narrative?

Come on Ernie - even if people have differing views on a range of subjects, debate is what it’s all about. There’s no need to fall out over it.

If debate is considered ‘bad’ maybe we should just shut the forum down?


Im not sure what you mean by ‘the outcome’? Surely debate amongst members regarding all club matters will go on long after I’ve retired from my post?

Quite. Any forum exists for discussion of relevant topics, and for a VOC forum this obviously includes the future of the forum itself and which software will drive it. It may be unfortunate that there are sharp disagreements on these issues, but that's hardly a reason for everyone to ignore them.

That said, it's to no one's advantage if the discussion drifts into personal attacks.
 

Bazlerker

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Mine was the response. Please post it. With all due respect may I suggest that this thread is another example of you whipping up angst in the troops.

Also, respectfully, Graham, pleas tell us what you wish to see as the outcome of all this argy-bargy.

This will be my last contribution to this thread and any others of this ilk. I shall stick strictly to technical matters as was intended.
“Argy Bargy” is dismissive, and is thereby insulting. Much of what happened at the GCM was thoroughly unprofessional, yet no one on the EC has had the cojones to address it publicly, your comment on the CE forums notwithstanding.
It ain’t just Graham that’s pissed off….anyone that has seen the video of the GCM is shocked!


 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
As many people who know me, I am a bit of a stirrer BUT I am also a bit of an achiever. My real name is Alyn Vincent and I have been a member of the VOC for nearly forty years. I have been a section organiser, secretary, treasurer and rally organiser. I was the main organiser of the 2007 International rally. Personally asked by President Bryan to see what I could do when we were in Vancouver in 2003.
I find this whole discussion disgusting. It should never have come to this. I have known personally our esteemed President for decades, Mark Goodson and I have shared each other's company in our respective homes and I think we are all in agreement that Andrew Everett, Jacqueline Bickerstaff, Ian Savage and Graham Smith have all made this club what it is today. It was Mark who changed the financial strategy of the club so it could now own its own clubhouse. To be crude, Andrew could organise a brothel in a convent if it was required! Ian of course made the VOCS what it now is. Jacqueline has more brain cells than any three normal people!! Graham has taken MPH to levels that John Webber could never have imagined. What has the current executive done to put themselves into such exalted company? Simple. Started a shit fight that was totally unnecessary.
The body language of our Secretary during the GCM was beyond the pale!! She knew what was coming because she personally harvested the proxies for Tim and Arthur only three days before the GCM. This was in contravention of the VOC rules but hey, it was necessary to succeed so let's just ignore the rules. Of course Ernie as assistant secretary needed a proxy to vote so he trolled the North London Section and I can tell you they are not happy. Neither the North London Section nor the New South Wales Section gave any direction to their proxies (Ernie and Arthur) on how to vote because they were not asked AND they were unaware of what votes were going to take place. Shameful.
IF the general membership is to know the full story this has to be put into MPH which is still the main focus of information for this club. Will someone please write a letter to the editor to explain to everyone around the world how it has come to this??
To Debbie, Bev and Bob, write letters to MPH!!! You have less chance of being censored and censured in MPH than here. On that note I was summarily barred from this forum last week without the knowledge of the webmaster and with no notice given to me. For the moment that is all I will say.
Sadly there are several longstanding members who have already made it known that they will not be renewing their membership in 2022. A declining membership will put a strain on the finances on the VOC and at the moment the reply from the executive is to raise fees. There are other ways, such as reducing colour content, obtaining more advertising, reducing pages and finally.... making the magazine bi-monthly. That last step would be a bold move to say the least but it would HALVE postage costs in one fell swoop.
If this video of the GCM gets out (and I suspect it has) we will be the laughing stock of the classic motorcycle world. I can see the headline in The Classic Motorcycle.."Vincent Owners Club Riven by Internal Dispute" Heads roll and a crisis looms.! Yup.
Sorry, but I am not finished. The comment by Vincent Speet in post #13 is interesting. He seconded Arthur Farrow's nomination of Stuart for Chairman.
Would there be anyone out there who is brave/committed to put forward a proposal "This club [The VOC Members Club] censures Arthur Farrow for his comments/inferences made against the integrity of Graham Smith at the GCM AND furthermore demands Arthur Farrow makes a written apology to Graham Smith in MPH" ? Failing that "This club should consider whether Arthur Farrow should be allowed to remain a member of the club" ? In many respects there are some strong ties to the Prosper Keating case but I think I better leave it there.
Thank you for your time and patience.
Alyn
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I can't speak for Graham but I can tell you what the majority of the users of the present forum want. That is to leave the present forum alone, To leave all its varioius faciliies intact and to cease to pester Graham about cutting out parts of it. We are happy to see what happens with a forum on CE and if the exec find CE to be useful and good value for money with the internal admin of the VOC then all well and good. It would also be good to see certain members of the exec behaving in a more mature manner.
Unfortunately Graham was told to pass all the database information to Bill Parr. It will be up to Bill what happens to the forum after Graham leaves his post in December. You have to ask yourself who is on the power-trip now.
 

Dinny

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I think this whole situation is unacceptable. If the Exec cannot portray themself in the professional manor that the role requires then they should resign. If they don't resign then they should be removed.

I run a successful business and the actions of certain individuals is completely unacceptable, they would have been removed from their posts by now in any business.

Alyn has drawn the same conclusion that the same members who acted unprofessionally have allegedly done the same in the past and its time for a change and to clear out the bad eggs.

I really don't care if my membership is revoked over my statement as the way I feel right now, I will not be renewing and will never rejoin under the current "clique".

As an overseas member the only interaction I have with the club is with the MPH and the forum. Bugger those up and it's over for me.

Shame on the Exec.

I will make no further comment, over and out.



Mark
 
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