ET: Engine (Twin) Oil change with anti sumping valve

[vibrac]

The only bike I have with a tap is my 35 KSS Velo, no switch interlock on that as it has a BTH mag with no cutout (it has a valve lifter) and its blessed with no lights (It has a spare can of R in the battery carrier). Now that has a new pump but is still a good sumper if left for over a week (otherwise its OK) I have a curly worly key lanyard that goes from the tap under the tank to a hole in the end of the clutch lever when not in use, or with the bike in motion to the rear of the saddle. Even I cant get on it or kick it without repositioning the lanyard So far so good

 

[Monkeypants]

Maughan's normally pride themselves on close tolerances, is there any reason why a 2 x Start oil pump would be more susceptible to passing oil into the sump than a single start pump.

I don't know why but at the time I was not the only person experiencing the rapid wet sumping with the new 2 start.
I thought about fitting another new 2 start then remembered Einstein's rule - "the definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing again and expecting a different result"
So the valve went on. It's been on there for four or five years now.
The nice thing is after being parked all winter the floor is perfectly dry under that bike, same as ae modern bike.
With the others the sumps will fill eventually and crankcase leakage always increases as the sumps fill up.

Glen

 

[Monkeypants]

The only bike I have with a tap is my 35 KSS Velo, no switch interlock on that as it has a BTH mag with no cutout (it has a valve lifter) and its blessed with no lights (It has a spare can of R in the battery carrier). Now that has a new pump but is still a good sumper if left for over a week (otherwise its OK) I have a curly worly key lanyard that goes fron the tap under the tank to a hole in the end of the clutch lever when not in use, or with the bike in motion to the rear of the saddle. Even I cant get on it or kick it without repositioning the lanyard So far so good

I'm a bit confused Tim, from your earlier post it sounded as though you would never dream of fitting an antisump valve, work on the pump instead, and then it turns out you've already come over to the dark side
It's not so bad...

Glen

 

[BigEd]

Zero memory required for the valve in the photo.
Bike cannot be started with oil off.
In my view a petrol tap on the sump isn't a good idea.
This requires memory to shut.
Accidentally leave it open and lose all the engine oil as you ride along.
Or hit something on the road and knock it off. Or hit something and have it open up.
Any of those scenarios would cause engine destruction.
Glen

I may be misinterpreting your post but are you saying that your tap is electrically opened?

 

[Monkeypants]

No it's manual. The only ignition key for the bike is attached to a small aluminium fob which opens and closes the valve. I tig welded small lip shaped pieces onto the valve such that when the oil is off, the key/fob piece cannot be removed. After manually opening the valve the key/fob can be removed from the valve to turn on the ignition.
So there are no wires or switches on the valve.
Kind of like those shopping carts that hold onto your coin until you properly return them to the kiosk.

Glen

 

[vibrac]

I'm a bit confused Tim, from your earlier post it sounded as though you would never dream of fitting an antisump valve, work on the pump instead, and then it turns out you've already come over to the dark side
It's not so bad...

Glen

No valve needed on a Vincent in good condition (I once got 3-1/2 pints out of a D that had stood for 2 years but thats hardly fair) Lesser and earlier breeds may need one even if in good condition I thought they were invented by Norton owners?

 

[Nigel Spaxman]

My BSA Goldstar came with a petcock on the oil suction line from the tank to prevent sumping. I never liked it and worried I might forget to turn it on, so whenever I turned it off I tied a piece of string to it that was also tied to the kickstart lever. Eventually I removed the valve as it wasn't nice and fixed the spring and ball in the timing case and the bottom of the oil pump so they were working as originally designed to slow the sumping to a tolerable level.

 

[Peter Holmes]

Way way back in 1965 I brokered a deal between a mate of mine, the chap that sold me my Vincent in fact, and my cousin, the bike in question was a highly tuned Norton Dominator, I know those words should not live in the same sentence, hence Tritons, anyway that bike wet sumped pretty rapidly once left idle, I don't think my mate ever forgave me, no matter how I tried to reassure him that this is normal, they all do it, he was convinced that I had colluded with my cousin to stitch him up with a dog of a bike, I rode it once, quite fast, vibrated, very noisy, cafe racer style, bloody uncomfortable, when my mate moved house, disillusioned with the bike he simply left it in the rear garden he told me later, wish I had known at the time, I would have grabbed it back.

 

[Texas John]

My B-Rapide has not been started in about 40 years. I am not sure how full the oil tank should be, but right now it is 4.1/2 inches from the top (1 or 2 inches below the round tube) and the oil level is 4 inches deep. So I think I do not have a wet sumping problem!
The oil looks very clear (golden color), except a black smear gets on my tool when it touched the bottom of the tank. I can't remember if I had changed the oil shortly before I parked it or if it is just that all the sludge has settled out of the oil.

 

[Monkeypants]

Way way back in 1965 I brokered a deal between a mate of mine, the chap that sold me my Vincent in fact, and my cousin, the bike in question was a highly tuned Norton Dominator, I know those words should not live in the same sentence, hence Tritons, anyway that bike wet sumped pretty rapidly once left idle, I don't think my mate ever forgave me, no matter how I tried to reassure him that this is normal, they all do it, he was convinced that I had colluded with my cousin to stitch him up with a dog of a bike, I rode it once, quite fast, vibrated, very noisy, cafe racer style, bloody uncomfortable, when my mate moved house, disillusioned with the bike he simply left it in the rear garden he told me later, wish I had known at the time, I would have grabbed it back.

Norton's do love to wet sump.
There are numerous fixes but the only one that really works is some type of valve with a safety interlock.

BTW, did you know that in 1963 the Norton Dominator 650ss was the World's fastest Production motorcycle? Guinness Book of World Records. 3x Thruxton Production TT winner.

Glen