FF: Forks M

oexing

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You could do the type I will add to the Brampton. The alu bracket may be screwed up to the old friction plate face on the lower casting but you can drill an extra dowel up into that if you don´t have faith in just holding the lot with the central nut. The damper rod of the € 30.- China damper is mounted on an alu round sitting in the sidecar lug. With a "crash bar" you may come up with a bracket holding the damper onto that bar somehow.
In my video clip you can see the workings in an early state of design.

Vic

P1060214.JPG
 

Gary Gittleson

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As the bottom casting of my existing steering stem would have to be removed from the bike in order to drill and tap 2 holes
There's a misunderstanding here. No holes need to be drilled. The existing hole for the pin of the friction damper just needs to be tapped. It's a plain hole and has to be tapped for one bolt. At least that's what was needed on mine (a Series D) and I'm pretty sure it's the same for the C.
 

timetraveller

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The thing is that Gary had a 'D' and the holes are drilled on those to take the bracket which supports the lower part of the fibreglass headlamp/dashboard moulding. The holes were also drilled on the early bikes, reputedly for a fully sprung head light which never materialised. The middle years of bike manufacture did not have the holes drilled and it seems that it is one of those which Bazlerker has. It is a pity that he does not feel competent enough to dismantle the steering head to either fit the modified steering head or even just the hydraulic damper I designed to fit the standard steering heads. There are many other people who have put photographs of their hydraulic steering damper installations on here so there is no shortage of alternative method. However, as far as I know, all these require someone to fabricate some fittings. Just one other thing, the two holes referred to do not have to be tapped, just made to be 8.5 or 9 mm diameter.
 

Peter Holmes

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I think the chances of achieving a satisfactory result using a hand held pistol drill and a right angled attachment are minimal, some pistol drills do have a built in spirit level to assist you, but that would be useless when used whilst drilling upwards and at an angle and also using a right angled attachment, I would not attempt it, it is at the very least a pillar drill job with the steering stem removed. I have spoken with Bob, and he does not really feel confident or competent enough to remove the steering stem from the headstock and the forks, also he really does not enjoy using spanners on motorcycles, sadly as there is no easy fix, and Bob has lost confidence in the safety of his Vincent, I think it will in all probability find a new home, can anybody out there help Bob with this work, it would sure be sad to lose him from the fold for the sake of two holes and a tapped thread.
 
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Pushrod Twin

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Just for the record, I have recently fitted one of Norman's JE steering stem/yoke assemblies, without an hydraulic damper, to a Comet. The change in steering sensation took me by surprise. When walking the bike around, the bars wanted to "flop" towards full lock. When riding, the steering felt heavy up to about 25MPH, then it felt more normal, but required positive counter steering input.
I put this down to the increase in trail.
Prior to fitting the new yoke, I drew it, then drew the original for reference. According to my measurements, the bottom link pivot has moved back about .539" and down .723" (If anyone else has worked through this and has different figures, please feel free to correct me, my maths and drawing can both be a bit average)
Keeping the calcs simple, moving the pivot back 1/2" means the axle moves back about 1 3/8", a theoretical increase in trail of about that amount. It should come as no surprise to feel a distinct change in feel of the bars. An increase of 1 3/8 trail should also ensure total stability, but as there are always other factors which can contribute to weave and tank slappers, no guarantee of tank slapper free steering.
The sensation had enough effect on me that I called Greg Brillus, who has fitted many of these units and asked if I may have done something wrong with fitting. His response was; he always fits an hydraulic steering damper with the stem and has not experienced what I described. We agreed that the internal friction of a steering damper probably masks the sensation.
 

greg brillus

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The pivot for the rear of the link is lower by 19 mm and back 10 mm.......This puts the 2 links near parallel to one another save a half to one mm........remember this set up does away with the eccentrics so becomes concentric, this is why when you look at the spring rates for the new springs the figures seem low, but the upper attachment is now further forward, thus the spring has a greater affect. If the bike is set up with too much pre load, the bike will sit at or near topped out.......this will make the bike feel odd, and you will get a clunk coming from the front due to the shocker topping out, not the suspension bottoming........with no weight on the bike the lower link should be absolutely no higher than level, and preferably slightly up at the nose........This can all vary a bit depending on what shocker you use, mostly........I generally run 2 x 45 Lb springs on a twin, and either one 45 and one 36 in a single, or even 2 x 36 on a single with a light rider........i also use very soft shock absorbers, as many of the others are way too stiff........If the front end tends to be a bit "wandery" at low speed, the following are the most likely causes........Loose head stem bearings, or if a race is not seated correctly in its pocket (this is more common than you migh think).......Loose front wheel/axle assembly, and/or too much play in the front wheel bearings.........also a crooked rim and/or poorly fitted tire not sitting on the rim correctly........another syptom of this which I find on probably 50% of bikes that come here........The rear drive chain is too tight........very common if the back suspension has been jacked up with longer springs........very important to sit on the bike, or moreso if you ride 2 up.......then check the chain tension........so many are way too tight.......This makes the bike feel very odd on the road.......not to mention the damage to hub bearings and gearbox output bearing. Just for the record.......in the entire time I have had the stem kit on my Rapide, I have had probably 3 occasions where the front end has had a shimmy generally over some sort of rut on a corner, some at quite high speed, and mostly 2 up........The bars do shake perhaps a couple of times, but immediately settles back down to normal........At no time does it ever give me any reason to feel suspect of its behaviour at all..........Do not assume that because you have installed the kit, that all is done and you have the perfect bike.......It can take some experimenting with springs and pre loads to fine tune the front end........The change in shock absorber can be a major game changer too........Anyone who installs the kit without having to shorten the springs will find 90% of the time that the front will be topped out........this is not good.......remove at least one spring and shorten it by 2 or 3 coils and try it again......It is absolutely critical that the front spring cases can telescope freely within each other to maximum travel with no binding.........If you use some of the newly available lower spring cases in an original pair or uppers, they will jam badly and gawl up terribly, due to the tube diamentions not being the same........If the cases bind up this will drastically inhibit the behavour of the front forks, and the front will feel terrible and stiff.........clean the case inners out thoroughly with some good solvent and a good sized bottle brush........do this many times to get all the old grease and grit out of them.........Shortening the inner and outer cases by 15 odd mm helps here a lot especially if the edges of the cases have worn to a knife edge...........All good fun........the new ride will definately be worth it........I always install a hydraulic steering damper even though I feel it is not absolutely necessary........Only Norman knows how many of these kits I've done now........I've lost track.........Cheers.
 

vibrac

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As the bottom casting of my existing steering stem would have to be removed from the bike in order to drill and tap 2 holes for the fitment of one of TimeTravellers excellent hydraulic dampers, are there any hydraulic steering dampers that do not require the holes in the casting?
Plenty I think I have loaded a picture of a damper on my racing Comet three times the word 'damper' in the title of a thread in the search box gives you 6 pages of threads. Seek and ye shall find
 

Phil H

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Forty years ago I had a Rapide that treated me to a tank slapper after hitting a bump. I blamed the fork geometry at full extension. I fitted Spax suspension dampers and a Kawasaki steering damper mounted on the left side by aluminium brackets. easy to fit. Handling at speed thereafter was impeccable. I have a clear memory of hitting a bump mid-corner at 80mph. When the Rapide landed it tracked true with no trace of a wobble or flex.
This might be your solution Bazlerker. From memory the back end of the steering damper was attached to a bit of aluminium angle which was secured by the left head bolts on the front cylinder, and the front end to a pear shaped aluminium plate that replaced the friction damper. The whole idea came from something that I read in M.P.H.
My experience with adjustable hydraulic steering dampers suggests that you start off at the minimum setting. I've tried starting at about the mid-way setting, and the results were memorable.
 
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