ET: Engine (Twin) Godet electric starter
- Thread starter greg brillus
- Start date
Hi Greg,
Good timing on the question. I was with Mark Cooper today and he is currently fitting two starters to a couple of bikes. One of them is the b that you and Steven sold him.
It looks like a bullet proof system but is a big deviation from standard. Maybe reach out to Mark and get the plans. Mark is planning to use a solenoid of some kind that is auto timed and will pull valve lifter for a moment as starter engages. This will then release, all auto. He’s not running a kick starter at all.
Good timing on the question. I was with Mark Cooper today and he is currently fitting two starters to a couple of bikes. One of them is the b that you and Steven sold him.
It looks like a bullet proof system but is a big deviation from standard. Maybe reach out to Mark and get the plans. Mark is planning to use a solenoid of some kind that is auto timed and will pull valve lifter for a moment as starter engages. This will then release, all auto. He’s not running a kick starter at all.
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I read this item earlier today and then, while tucking into my Sunday treat of sausage and bacon, my remaining two neurones were rubbing up against each other wondering if I could design a Vincent cam to do the same. Then I thought to myself, Norman you are a silly wazzack. The existing valve lifter does just the same job. If there is some fragility in the starter system for large capacity and/or highly tuned bikes why not apply the electric starter with the valve lifter applied until the engine has got up to speed and then drop the valve lifter. I do realise on a 'modern' Vincent that this might seem a bit primitive, bit like me really, so it would be perfectly possible to design in a 12 volt solenoid to operate the valve lifter and the solenoid would have a timer built in So pressing the starter button would first operate the solenoid, the starter would spin for a second or two and then the solenoid would cut out. Over to you chaps.
Mark copper here in nz has designed just a thing and is installing it in the starter system above
Greg my handsome, if you can improve anything on a Vincent problem you go right on and do it, keeping us all "informed of cause". If you do have complaints let me know and I'll stop their rations. seriously though I've always loved going to rallies in my early years as there was such a variation of these clapped out high powered old bikes sporting so many modifications yet there was nothing so aesthetically pleasing than a post war Vincent yet the prewar fascinating ugly abortion of a twin but the single looked OK. Now they all look so standard it's boring, seeing Egli's makes a change. Starting is important and any thing that can improve it I welcome. We all learn from one another as there is no firm out there developing for us only enthusiastic individuals.
bananaman.
bananaman.
Thanks all so far,.......My concerns are that these are late model Godet Egli's we are talking about....... I have an interest in this myself on account of a new build engine/bike project for myself in the very near future and this starting issue is something i need to nut out for my own engine. My real question is, does anyone know of any other owners of these bikes that have starting issues........The main problems that I see with them is thus.........You have a large capacity engine cranking over that has no means of decompression......I have no idea as to whether Patrick's engines use a squish band in the head.........this would make a difference straight away........It uses the original triplex primary chain and the original style ESA on the crank.......This assembly concerns me, as under cranking it goes to full deflection one way, then once the engine fires it very abruptly goes to the full opposite deflection, thus creating a massive shock load through the primary and against the starter pinion.......... Of course a major problem with this starter design is the cranking ratio is very very poor by comparison to a car engine........ I worked out the starter pinion to crankshaft ratio is about 5:1 .......So the starter is very much loaded to the maximum.......This ratio does not account for the internal reduction gears within the starter itself, but even so, the starter ring gear has about 72 teeth verses a car engine has about 160 teeth (this for say a small block Chev engine for comparison) then via the primary sprocket ratio of 1.6:1 as per a standard Vincent twin. For those who have seen one, these bikes are a work of art........the quality of everything is amazing.......So for me to have to re-- engineer things is a bit scary........I'm not sure the people at the factory in France are willing to even talk about it, they seem very hard to communicate with........I certainly don't wish to upset them.......The owner has given me permission to literally do whatever is necessary to fix it......... understandably I am not rushing into anything without very careful planning.......... Any ideas most welcome.........Cheers......GB.
Gene, does that idler pulley have support from the primary cover?
John, those S&S cams look complex, but very competitive in cost with their conventional cams:
https://www.sscycle.com/search/comp...1521890,,ba2751f1-5b3f-481b-b527-f080411c51d9
They must make a lot of them to hold down the cost.
John, those S&S cams look complex, but very competitive in cost with their conventional cams:
https://www.sscycle.com/search/comp...1521890,,ba2751f1-5b3f-481b-b527-f080411c51d9
They must make a lot of them to hold down the cost.
Just quickly getting back to some of the items pointed out so far.........Bills picture showing the push button decompressors work extremely well, I used those exact same ones on the twin racer in my pic to the left.......Ideal for a high comp race bike, and easy to use, probably a bit awkward on this type of bike but still worth considering.........Norman's idea too is a good one, although sometimes I think the stock valve lifter can be an issue.........the force required to lift both exhaust valves at some part of the cycle might be a bit much for a solenoid.......not sure how you would hide it from sight, a large solenoid hanging out the rear of the timing chest might be a bit ugly........And a stock cable, handlebar lever assembly might also be awkward on such narrow bars........these Egli bars are tiny.... way smaller than the ones on my racer. So it could be either a solenoid decomp valve screwed into another sparkplug hole machined into each head, or the Royal Enfield ones work very well and take absolutely no effort to operate, even if 2 of them are coupled together like a one into 2 throttle cable set up. Thanks for the pics Gene, very nice........That starter looks good, although the motor housing is very short........The Godet one is longer and they hang down to clear the drive chain........It is worth noting that as the engine capacity grows, the effort to crank it goes up substantially, so this all adds up to a difficult problem. A good friend and mechanic told me those Harley type starters come with different length motor housings that readily bolt up from one to another, so that may be of help in getting a bit more oomph into it.
Ron's Comet spins very free, To be honest He tried it before I got down there,
He had a spare plug hole in the head,
And didn't get on with it, But I went down with a "D" Distributor Kit and we fitted that,
Then we found the New decompressor worked fine,
So a lot of His hard starting was I think the old type Mag'.
I have never liked the standard valve lifter, But have used them for many years, As other people.
I even use the standard setup with Somerton square cams !.
He had a spare plug hole in the head,
And didn't get on with it, But I went down with a "D" Distributor Kit and we fitted that,
Then we found the New decompressor worked fine,
So a lot of His hard starting was I think the old type Mag'.
I have never liked the standard valve lifter, But have used them for many years, As other people.
I even use the standard setup with Somerton square cams !.
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