non VOC member therefore limited access.
H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres (Front) Brake improvements
- Thread starter DucATIRadeon
- Start date
ah that does help a lot!
brake cables currently 3mm, someone must've been at this before me...
making 4 new trunnions with much larger flat area and radii (stress relief), and a slight interference fit. using same nuts as now (⅜"-26 CEI)
cheers for that one!
I have discussed several simple solutions to this problem. However, even simple problems require some machining work or welding skills to be utilized.
Good brakes on a stock Vincent are very difficult to achieve because the entire system is poorly designed. Phil Irving did admit that the 7" diameter was a poor choice. But, design issues aside, the individual components were not strong enough to provide continuous reliable braking. The double-pivot posts are just one weak link in the chain. If you replace the double posts with a single post that eliminates the bending problem, then you are likely to bend or break the shoes as they are already flexing under normal braking. If you replace the shoes the twin posts will bend. If you replace the posts and the shoes the cable will stretch or the drum will start to bulge.
For Sale - Lightning Brakes
The spring is an easy fix, Just drill a hole in the shoe, Some people do that anyway, Sometimes the hook has been known to break off. The BMW is only moving one shoe. The only problem I see is a Spongy Brake, Our old trouble !. I already use the Roger Haylett mod' of elongating the pivot hole ...
www.vincentownersclub.co.uk
David
The Black Shadow came with steel brake plates. The aftermarket aluminum brake plates with the cast in scoops had a few issues. The holes for those pivots may not be in the correct location. The shoes in your photo appear to be original, but it’s hard to tell. Replacing them with with the new stronger shoes that are available will help.
I was corrected on whatsapp: they aren't BS plates but Black Lightning (what's in a name).
saw the new shoes on Spares site with the note: same pattern but stronger. stronger as in: the curved surfaced is thicker? the web is thicker?
I have to (re-)machine the shoes anyway to the drum size once I get the pivots done.
drums themselves are pretty sound/true.
saw the new shoes on Spares site with the note: same pattern but stronger. stronger as in: the curved surfaced is thicker? the web is thicker?
I have to (re-)machine the shoes anyway to the drum size once I get the pivots done.
drums themselves are pretty sound/true.
Stock in the first photo, Neal Videan’s on the bottom. Not sure about the web, I didn’t measure them at the time. I think the ones from VOC Spares are the same, but when I bought mine, I got them directly from Neal (before the Spares Company carried them). Replacing the shoes before adding longer arms would probably be a good idea.
There is another fellow on the forum who has what I think are the same brake plates as you. If I remember correctly, he said some of the holes were on the piss, whatever that means…. I’m not familiar with the term, but took it as the holes weren’t where they were supposed to be. So best to check in case you can move them while doing whatever repair you decide on. Maybe those plates are thinner than mine, I suppose in reality mine still might bend…. just not with the pressure I’m capable of applying.
I did some reading on the mod that allows those pivots to move, but decided with alloy brake plates, I would rather pull the plates and turn the shoes again… if and when I ever ride it enough for the shoes to start going south.
When I turn the shoes, I put temporary shims between the cam and the shoes.
Anyway… I’m not the resident brake expert, (that’s David’s job) so I’ll bugger off back to the shop.
There is another fellow on the forum who has what I think are the same brake plates as you. If I remember correctly, he said some of the holes were on the piss, whatever that means…. I’m not familiar with the term, but took it as the holes weren’t where they were supposed to be. So best to check in case you can move them while doing whatever repair you decide on. Maybe those plates are thinner than mine, I suppose in reality mine still might bend…. just not with the pressure I’m capable of applying.
I did some reading on the mod that allows those pivots to move, but decided with alloy brake plates, I would rather pull the plates and turn the shoes again… if and when I ever ride it enough for the shoes to start going south.
When I turn the shoes, I put temporary shims between the cam and the shoes.
Anyway… I’m not the resident brake expert, (that’s David’s job) so I’ll bugger off back to the shop.
enough lining on there to do a few machine cuts and mess up a few too!
the curvature is thicker that much is for sure!
is the lining bonded or rivetted? my are riveted, maybe bonded too by the looks of some yellowish varnish-like goop remnants. one of the rivets is not below the running surface so will have to grind that away gently (luckily its on the dragging side and not leading!).
the curvature is thicker that much is for sure!
is the lining bonded or rivetted? my are riveted, maybe bonded too by the looks of some yellowish varnish-like goop remnants. one of the rivets is not below the running surface so will have to grind that away gently (luckily its on the dragging side and not leading!).
All the above points are a good approach.......I'll add by saying the choice of linings has a big impact on these brakes too.......My pick are the ones supplied by Vintage brake in the USA.......there will be many others, but a lot of modern soft linings dont seem to give as much bite as these and some woven linings.......Most of the bending going on is because the linings are simply not good enough to use on old school mechanical brakes........or the ingress of oil or grease from the wheel hubs, as you dont need much to limit the action of the small lining surfaces........This is a very common problem on these bikes, especially the rear brakes that cop oil from a leaking engine/breather.The other very important issue is the use of both front and rear brakes together........anyone who rides a modern bike and only tend to use the front brakes only will simply sruggle to pull up a Vincent using the front brake only.......these bikes need both brakes.......I have stock brakes except for alloy Lighning type front plates complete with the poorly set up axle hole.......using standard and some of Neal/Rodney's new shoes, the braking difference was nill........But cutting the oversized linings on each plate and using good linings are the trick to getting good brakes on these bikes.....Well as good as they can be really......The twin leader Speet brakes work well, some of my customers swear by them.......They are still a 7" brake......this size on a heavy bike is only going to work so well, no matter what you do to it........With some of the custom Hybrid Vincents and my solo racer, I'm use to big four leader brakes that put the Vin brakes to shame.......but they too take some carefull setting up, and lining choice to work well........I had a 1200 Egli here recently that had genuine TZ brakes front and rear.......The front brake was the best drum brake i have ever used.......it would easily stand the bike on its nose with very little finger pressure........again it had really good linings, so for me there is definately part of the answer.......Cheers.