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E: Engine Egli 500 Special

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#21
The cheap version is to have both valves closed, use the compression tester adapter screwed in and blow low pressure air in. Listen at the pipe for air passing the exh valve, carb for air past the inlet valve and an inspection cap for air past the rings.
 

Ben Langton

Website User
VOC Member
#22
Thanks all, very much appreciated.

So I'm going to drain the sump (seen the plug left side bottom Bill) see what comes out. I'll start it and take it for a run. I've proberbly only done 30 miles on it in the past 4 months or so. It doesn't get used..........yet!
 

Ben Langton

Website User
VOC Member
#23
Forgot to say, very interested to learn more in general about the bike. F106 tie, different gearbox mount, 600cc names. Please tell me what you see.
Thanks
 

Ben Langton

Website User
VOC Member
#24
The only picture my wife managed to take while holding our sons (4 and 2) just before I went up the hill (pressed wrong button or something) went well at that point after starting and warmed up. I'll get it sorted with your kind help. image.png
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#25
I did tell Ben about leak down tests in a PM because everybody else had heard it before.

Ben said that the other breathers are not operative. Just so Ben knows the first one that is the operative one is on the timing chest is the elephants trunk, the second one on the generator drive is blocked, the third on on the Ex valve cap is blocked and the fourth one, the stock one, is blocked on the primary side with a 1/2" X 20 brass bolt.
100_2752.jpg
The F106 is a cast aluminum triangular part that replaces the rear cylinder on the Comets. It is used to hold the top of the gearbox in place and to provide some support to the oil tank or upper frame member like the rear cylinder would. There is a large bolt in a 1/2" hole right above your gearbox on the frame where the top of the F106 would be bolted.

I have an F106 on a 600 engine that has a Norton gearbox, but it has the two legs that would mount to the gearbox cut of and is not mounted to the F106, but it is all mounted together.
100_1666.jpg

100_1658.jpg

David
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#27
Morning Ben, What super place to live !, Nice photo, Reminds me of the Hill Climb in Wales, I did, On the Old Swansea Road, If you Didn't stop in time, You went down a Cliff !!, I won the Knockout once against a 900 Kwacker. You will always get some oil out of the sump, By now I would have thought the oil pump would have done it's job, And be OK. Cheers Bill.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#28
Morning David, So is Ben's a proper Egli, Or a Maylem Type, Cheers Bill.
I did not ask Ben about the history. It seemed to me he was getting to know the whole bike.

I don't remember a transition model engine being used in an Egli Comet that I have seen before. I first thought it might have been Phil French's old bike. That came on Ebay about a year ago and it had no F106 also, but I did not recognize the gussets in the frame triangle and I believe all of the original Fritz Egli 500s had number plate mounts on the frame, but have no gussets between the tubes. Additionally, Phil's was not a transition model engine.

I thought I saw this bike before, but when I checked I found this:
06060040.jpg
I thought it might have been this bike with a different seat and tank. It is not, primarily because the frame has no gussets. But, what got me was the footrest plates. They are an unusual shape and almost identical to Ben's. What are the chances of something like that being identical?

So, my best guess now is Cyril or CGA built the frame. Maybe Ben can set me straight?

David
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#29
I live near Cyril now, I have never met him, But spoke on the phone to him, It would have been good to know him 40/50 years ago, I thought about having one of his frames, But as you know I went for the cheaper way with the "D" frame, Which I am happy with, Still. Cheers Bill.
 

Ben Langton

Website User
VOC Member
#30
Evening all.
Well I removed the sump plug and this is what came out, I was surprised, it's a 2l bottle. The oil does have a wife (been 25 years since I smelled castrol R so not sure) it has a green tinge to the brown, not particles, very clean if the colour is good?
I checked the oil level, not run, on both wheels and level, dipped a wire down next to what I imagine is some kind of breather pipe? Touched the bottom of the tank, it read 1 1/2 inches like a dipstick.

I've also had another look at what I think is the oil pipe work on top the engine. One that comes down from the oil tank at the front, goes in at the front. One on the right side goes down the the bottom of right crankcase and that's it, Back of oil tank down to engine and that's it I think.

On anoth note that bike above is very similar David, where was it from? Neither of the names on the log book,can't quite make out reg in reflection. I have been playing "spot the difference" though. Forks look the same Cerriani? My top yoke would take those bars too. Is it a Cerriani brake too? Colour/metal plate different. Now the seat I removed sat the same, high at the back, and looks to be the same but slightly cut down. My exhaust is the same too, but now sprung held at the front. As you say, plates look the same too bar one hole on the peg plate. Steep down draft on carb. What have I missed? It's the closest. Bike I've see now never ver looked t loads of pictures. Clearly the gussets are on mine (what are they for? Could they have been added? I've seen picture of frames with straight pieces there but not full triangles (if you know what I mean?).
Now this is just my novice eye on similarities, please enlighten me.
Here are the pics.
image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
 

MartynG

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#32
A couple of other points I forgot..........The engines do have a decompressor mechanism to enable you to ease the engine over TDC this is cable operated from a pull type fitting at the rear of the timing chest, just inboard from the top right corner of the gearbox. Also I noticed that your kickstart lever is missing its lower pinch bolt, even though the spline on those AMC boxes is huge, it could strip the spline, so be sure and fit a 3/8 bolt and nut through it to stop this happening. Cheers again................Greg.
From the photo is seems that the valve decompressor may be missing from the motor. The attachment provides some info on how to reinstall one without creating a 'new' oil leak.

Martyn
 

Attachments

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#33
Ben,

I am sorry I don't know anything about that photo. I keep an eye out for Egli photos on the internet and that one looked interesting. I try and trace them if I can, but many have no info.

This is one that shows the same frame, but it has a closed loop at the rear.

1e4af121a0565cb789309adaeb1ca13c.jpg
The gussets are often used to mount sheet metal covers, tool and battery boxes.
1rabbit-kempton_030-copy.jpg
Your forks are Metal Profile, I believe. Cyril also used oval tubing for the swing arm. It is called oval, but it is a rectangle with a half round top and bottom. I should say that assuming Cyril built it he would have built it to the owners spec. He could add gussets and a loop in the back.

When I spoke to Cyril in 2009 at Bonneville he told me he had built 50 or more Comet frames. So, most of these Egli- Comets would have been built by Cyril. It the photo above, that is a fuel tank that Cyril sold. Cyril worked under the name "CTG" and you may spot that somewhere.

As Greg said the front brake is a Grimeca, which is an italian manufactured brake, but it has been available on Eglis since the late 1960's.

I will try and describe how the oil lines work. There should be a pipe or line coming down from the back of the oil tank that is called the feed line. This line goes into a banjo bolt that goes straight up into the front of the oil pump under the engine on the timing side. The oil pump pushes this oil into the filter chamber, the one with the big hex cap under the mag on the primary side. Now, go back to the timing side. That silver banjo bolt under the breather goes directly into the filter chamber. It takes the filtered oil and feeds it through the timing cover to the crank (that is the crank quill on the timing chest directly back from that banjo. This oil also goes to the cam and to the cylinder bottom. That's it. That takes care of the feed side of the oil pump.

All that oil flows into the sump that you have been draining. The flywheel, when turning, pushes that oil into a chamber at the back corner of the engine. There is another banjo bolt down under the engine. The oil feed pipe goes right by it. This is the scavenge oil pipe. All that oil in the sump gets pushed up this line that goes by the rockers and drops oil into them on its way to the bottom of your oil tank. So, this lubes the rockers and is the return line to the oil tank. It may be on the front of your oil tank.

When I want to drain the oil out of the oil tank I usually undo the ring clamps that hold my rubber oil line onto the banjo. This is that banjo bolt underneath that is near the front. You can undo the banjo itself and drain the oil, but I usually use the ring clamps because I am too cheap to keep replacing the seal on the banjo bolt. Either is fine. As you know, you also have to drain any oil that did not get pumped out of the sump. You can undo the big hex cap on the oil filter chamber, but you should order the tool from the Club if you did not get one with the bike.

If you put in a new filter you can do up the big hex cap (no goop necessary) and then go to the timing side. Undo that banjo under the breather and use an oil can that squirts oil to fill the oil chamber. If someone is helping he can hold the bike off the stand and lean it to the left while you fill the chamber. Remember, you have to put the nozzle of the squirter past the timing chest and go right into the oil chamber or the oil you are squirting in will just drop to the bottom of the timing chest.
100_2711.jpg
Starting at bottom right, Oil banjo straight up is the feed from the tank, to the bottom left is the scavenge from the sump that goes up to the head and then returns to the tank. Above the scavenge is the cank shaft quill supplying oil to the crank and top right is the oil chamber banjo bolt where you can prime the oil chamber if you empty it.

David
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#34
Ben, If that oil in the plastic bottle is after 30 miles, It's too much !.
How long was it left since the last start up.
David, Is there a return pipe on the Egli, That Ben can see if the oil is returning OK.
Cheers Bill.
 

Ben Langton

Website User
VOC Member
#36
Thanks for the oil info David, I actually get it too! Well explained.
So I took the sump plug out this morning, I'd say 2 thimble fills.
What I'm going to do is modify the Ron Kemp set up with a valve a gauze and then take it for a ride (thanks Marcus) it sounds straight forward, can change it if need be and I can make it myself. Actually looking forward to it.
I'm now thinking maybe because it's been stood for so long and never been drained oil had just built up.
So we think it's a Cyril frame, please tell me more.
I've taken a couple more shots to help with things. If you can't zoom in on the engine let me know and I'll take a couple more.
I've learnt more in the past few days than I have with hours of reading and looking on the web, really enjoying it. Thanks for all the info so far, please keep it coming. image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#37
Ben,

The problem with identifying the frame is that the frame jig Cyril used was originally made by the Smiths to make an Egli frame that was called "Sprint". Sprint is still around and still owned by Dennis Smith. Cyril bought it and used it for a few decades. Cyril was trained at Atlantic Motors, famous for formula 1 cars, and their fabricators were the best. Cyril worked under the name CTG. Five or six years ago he sold the jig to CGA, who I think is in Bournemouth. I don't know how many they have produced.

Of course, all these frames look alike. They use of the same jig which will cause them to be built similarly.
It looks like you have a removable end cap on the oil tank near the seat and I don't know if Cyril ever did one of those. Also, Cyril's front motor mounts are triangular and yours are not.
Egli Frames Barker _PB_1.jpg
This is the CGA frame. It has Cyril's touches like the back of the oil tank with the bevel on the top tube. Also those front motor mounts that are triangular compared to your motor mounts.

So, Now that I can see the whole frame, I am not sure who built it. I wish I could be of more help, but at least you know some more details that you can be looking for.

Other parts on your bike: the manifold looks like a stock Grey Flash/Lightning front manifold. The head lug, that holds your motor to the the frame is aluminum, so it is a replacement for the stock steel item. I like the tank. Normally the tank mount is a stud in back of the filler cap.
EV4 Naked 9.jpg

100_0396.JPG

David
 

Oldhaven

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#38
I hope this is not too obvious but have you looked for identifying numbers on the frame? Look on the headstock tube or rear bearing housing. If you don't find anything it is at least an indication that it may be a one off since a lot of frame builders identify the frame for a variety of practical reasons.
 

Ben Langton

Website User
VOC Member
#39
Thanks for all advice on both history and oil. Thanks to Marcus I know understand the oiling system and have sorted the breather problem. On taking the bike for a ride the next thing to sort is carburation I think, see new thread. I will continue to look for history about the bike a similar machines so please do let me know anything you may hear through PM ( took me a while to find this thread) many thanks to all once again and especially Marcus.
 
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