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Brake Fettling

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
One step I didn't see in the brake setup story in the new MPH is to "pre-load" the shoes. It involves vise-grips, so many won't like it, but I like the better brakes. I assemble the arms, motion blocks and cable ends loosely, with the adjusters screwed not quite all the way in. Then, I rotate the cam in the direction the cable will pull it, using the vise-grip on the serrated washer, until the shoe contacts. Next, using a third hand, I tighten the nut. This leaves the lining almost touching the drum and leaves the maximum amount of adjustment. As with most things, there is a learning curve. An alternate to vise-grips is SS serrated washers with radial holes and a special pin spanner to fit.

I also have the KTB style balance beam outrigger and Doug Hollis design backing plate gussets.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Perhaps using a vise grip on Bruce's nuts might stop some of this butchery. It is absolutely not necessary to do it the way he suggests.

:mad:
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I find the best way is to put a flat washer between the back of the serrated washer and the boss on the backing plate, then the cam and nut, one can then tighten the nut until is is stiff to move the cam, rotate the cam to the desired opening and fully tighten the nut. Then turn the shoes to the correct diameter, disassemble and remove the washer and install on the wheel.

The vice grips should be applied to Bruce's nuts only!

Robert
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Brakes!!

Does this mean you don't want me to work on your bikes?

Seriously, Robert's idea is pretty good, the washer one, I mean.
 

mercurycrest

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Bruce,
I'm pretty sure, although I must emphasize I haven't tried it myself, if you are ambitious enough, you could use both hands and have a vise and vice grip on all your respective nuts simutaneously..... :D:rolleyes::eek:
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
?

I said vise grip on the washer. On the nut would be, well, nutz.;)

Vice is the Squad that catches you "at play".
 
Last edited:

Pete Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
Vincent design not perfect

Leaving aside the reprehensible vices (vises) of some correspondents, has anyone thought of a way around the design flaw in the Vincent brake set-up?

Profiling the shoes to suit the drum, as suggested by Robert is surely the way to go to get a good brake, initially, but what happens after a few miles? The Vincent design uses leading and trailing shoes. The shoe with the operating cam at the leading end makes use of the 'self wrapping' effect and gives more braking effort than the trailing shoe. More braking effort = more lining wear. Conversly the trailing shoe will have less wear. This is demonstrated on many car and commercial vehicle applications where the leading shoe is actually supplied thicker than the trailing one from new. Unfortunately the Vincent design has no provision for wear compensation. The cam position and the anchor position are both fixed. This means that the leading shoe may only wear down at the same rate as the trailing shoe otherwise it will not contact the drum. We have, in effect, got twin trailing shoe brakes. The 8" drum system mentioned in MPH this month looks worthwhile but has it still got the same problem?

Has anyone got any clever thoughts for an adjustable cam or anchor that will allow for different rates of wear?

Pete
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I ran "standard" brakes for almost 20 years with AM4 linings on stiff alloy plates and finned drums, and although adequate for that time I did not feel that with two up and luggage they were up to the job. I was just preparing to go to disks when Vincent Speet's TLS brakes appeared. I an very happy with the results of installing them.
As for making the original more effective, in an MPH early on in my tenure as Editor I think --- or perhaps just before, Bert Weisz (sadly no longer with us) laid out drawings to make the anchor pins in a floating arrangement which address the question Pete has asked. Unlike John Webber who kept endless lists with which to cross reference articles in MPH, I didn't, but I just spent a few minutes and found the appropriate page. MPH 632 from Sept 2001 Page 13. Hope that is of some interest.

Robert
 

Pete Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
Scanner anyone?

MPH 632 from Sept 2001 Page 13.
Thanks for the speedy reply Robert. Unfortunately Sept 2001 was before my time with the club. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to scan the relevent page and post it in this thread.

On a slightly different subject, I assume that editors past and present compile MPH electronically. How difficult would it be to create an electronic archive of MPH back copies? Could this be done on-line or even as a cd ROM that could be sold through the club shop. Am I over simplifying matters and it would actually be loads of work?

Pete
 

clevtrev

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have brake plates with indepedently floating shoes, and they do not work, at least, not with AM4 linings.
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks for the speedy reply Robert. Unfortunately Sept 2001 was before my time with the club. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to scan the relevent page and post it in this thread.

On a slightly different subject, I assume that editors past and present compile MPH electronically. How difficult would it be to create an electronic archive of MPH back copies? Could this be done on-line or even as a cd ROM that could be sold through the club shop. Am I over simplifying matters and it would actually be loads of work?

Pete
MPH was compiled in my era (and before me by J Webber, and I think Graham may have changed) with specialty composing programs such as Quark Express. Whilst these can be changed to the ubiquitous MS Word or some such, a great deal of formatting would be required. There was one Member scanning old MPH's and putting them on a disk I believe but I'm afraid I have a bad memory, and don't recall where that stood.

Robert

Down to missing only two MPH's #71 and #130
 

Graham Smith

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
MPH was compiled in my era (and before me by J Webber, and I think Graham may have changed) with specialty composing programs such as Quark Express. Whilst these can be changed to the ubiquitous MS Word or some such, a great deal of formatting would be required. There was one Member scanning old MPH's and putting them on a disk I believe but I'm afraid I have a bad memory, and don't recall where that stood.

Robert

Down to missing only two MPH's #71 and #130
MPH 712 - May 2008 was the last edition of MPH to be originated in Quark XPress.

From MPH 713, MPH will be compiled using a relatively new Adobe Product called InDesign.

As far as I can tell, we have electronic versions of all the MPHs that Robert put together, and all the ones that I have done.

Not sure about the John Webber era.

Putting MPH on disk and selling via the Club Shop would take some serious consideration.
 

stumpy lord

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
One step I didn't see in the brake setup story in the new MPH is to "pre-load" the shoes. It involves vise-grips, so many won't like it, but I like the better brakes. I assemble the arms, motion blocks and cable ends loosely, with the adjusters screwed not quite all the way in. Then, I rotate the cam in the direction the cable will pull it, using the vise-grip on the serrated washer, until the shoe contacts. Next, using a third hand, I tighten the nut. This leaves the lining almost touching the drum and leaves the maximum amount of adjustment. As with most things, there is a learning curve. An alternate to vise-grips is SS serrated washers with radial holes and a special pin spanner to fit.

I also have the KTB style balance beam outrigger and Doug Hollis design backing plate gussets.
Sorry but I do not see the need to use vice grips to adjust brakes. This technique works without any bodging at all .On the left hand brake unit tightening the brake came arm nut automaticaly pulls that brake on. on the other side all you have to do is pull the nut up tight, and then using your spanner on the said nuts turn the thing untill the shoes are in contact with the drum. if you did not nip it up ennough all that will happen is the bloody thing will come un done, easy peasy
 

raygray

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
You could lock the shoes on by removing the grease niple from cam tube and replacing it with a 1/4 bsf bolt tightened onto cam spindle.
 

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