1949 HRD Works Order Form details

[Bradley Burt]

I’m looking at the Works Order Forms of three 1949 HRD twins within 150 engine numbers of each other. Two were dispatched to UK dealers 10 days apart in June. The other stayed at the factory and was shipped to Australia a few months later.

The test riders for each bike are named Tonge, Waugh and Pinnington. Does anyone know their full names? Hampshire (Ted Hampshire I presume) was the Chief Tester during this time.

Under “Extras”, each bike has the following:
Footrest Assy Schedule Mk III F52/11412, Pillion “ “ “ “ 23 TEM.
What does this mean?

Under “Deviations From Standard”:
RHKS Schedule 22 TEM, 2 degrees ATC.
What does this mean? One of the others has 5 degrees ATC.

Two of these bikes originally had 7” fluted headlamps.

Thank you all.

 

[Keith Martin]

I have a Rapide built in May of 49 that has the same remarks on build sheet.

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

The test riders you are asking about were:
Reg Tonge
Vic Waugh
Henry Pinnington
There were other test riders so this is not the full list.

Nobody knows what 23 TEM means and I have asked in the past and nobody has come up with a sensible suggestion. It written on virtually every works order form for the first several thousand bikes so was hardly a "extra".

On the engine sheet we think RHKS could be right hand kick start but thats just a guess. What 22TEM means is unknown but agains is written on virtually every engine spec sheet for the first 4000 plus bikes so agains hardly a deviation from standard.

I suspect 22TEM & 23TEM are a modification that was introduced fairly early in series B manufacture and became the standard. Eventually they stopped noting the comments.

 

[rapide049]

The test riders you are asking about were:
Reg Tonge
Vic Waugh
Henry Pinnington
There were other test riders so this is not the full list.

Nobody knows what 23 TEM means and I have asked in the past and nobody has come up with a sensible suggestion. It written on virtually every works order form for the first several thousand bikes so was hardly a "extra".

On the engine sheet we think RHKS could be right hand kick start but thats just a guess. What 22TEM means is unknown but agains is written on virtually every engine spec sheet for the first 4000 plus bikes so agains hardly a deviation from standard.

I suspect 22TEM & 23TEM are a modification that was introduced fairly early in series B manufacture and became the standard. Eventually they stopped noting the comments.

Simon
what is 2 degrees ATC
5 degrees ATC
Thanks

 

[fogrider]

Many years ago, I had a few long chats with Norman Peach. Test rider, wheel builder. He talked about test riding every bike and mainly on set routes. So is it possible 23 TEM is 23 test miles ?

Just a thought......

 

[greg brillus]

Perhaps the 2 degrees was a static ignition timing point, given the overall ignition was around 39 degrees.......I'm not sure what the factory spec Lucas ATD range was, as most originals are quite worn now, but if the unit itself had 20 degrees of range, then 2 deg after TDC could be something.

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

Many years ago, I had a few long chats with Norman Peach. Test rider, wheel builder. He talked about test riding every bike and mainly on set routes. So is it possible 23 TEM is 23 test miles ?

Just a thought......

Doubt it. Bikes which have separate test reports noted the test mileage and they varied quite a lot in distance.

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

The ATD specification when new was 17 degrees movement at the mag so 34 degrees at the crank.

I don’t know what the 2 ATC and 5 ATC is referring to exactly but did wonder if at least one figure is to do with valve timing. Maybe the overlap point?

 

[Bradley Burt]

Two of the three forms state 2 ATC and 5 ATC sorry. The 13 was another number. The valve timing sections are left blank... I think the timing would be retarded if it was ignition timing. The 2 ATC is a Shadow and 5 ATC a Rapide if that means anything...

I have a Rapide built in May of 49 that has the same remarks on build sheet.

The earliest Rapide of these three was being built in late May/early June.

Thanks for the names Simon. Theres a couple of threads on the forum about Vic Waugh and Henry Pinnington but I can't find anything about Reg Tonge... Is there any known history about him?

It's also interesting to see that two of these bikes left the factory with 7" headlamps. Both these bikes went to UK dealers. There is no mention of headlamp size for the bike that came to Australia so I'm guessing it was the more common 6.5" headlamp. Were 8" headlamps still being used on Series Bs during this time?

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

Two of the three forms state 2 ATC and 5 ATC sorry. The 13 was another number. The valve timing sections are left blank... I think the timing would be retarded if it was ignition timing. The 2 ATC is a Shadow and 5 ATC a Rapide if that means anything...


The earliest Rapide of these three was being built in late May/early June.

Thanks for the names Simon. Theres a couple of threads on the forum about Vic Waugh and Henry Pinnington but I can't find anything about Reg Tonge... Is there any known history about him?

It's also interesting to see that two of these bikes left the factory with 7" headlamps. Both these bikes went to UK dealers. There is no mention of headlamp size for the bike that came to Australia so I'm guessing it was the more common 6.5" headlamp. Were 8" headlamps still being used on Series Bs during this time?

Bradley
I don't know anything else about Reg Tonge.

As for headlight sizes, it appears confusing but is quite simple.

8" headlamp units use glass lens units that measure 8" in diameter hence called 8" and all early B's up to late 1947 used this unit.

The 7" headlamp unit that the factory refer to is the same unit that us owners call 6.5". So when you see 7" in the records its was a 6.5" diameter lens unit and the headlight shell was what measured 7" and this is the same unit that the later series C's continued to use. Why the different references to measurments for the same unit I don't know.

Around November 1947 the first occasional reference to 7" headlamp appears in the factory records and in early 1948 the factory started noting if 8" or 7" was been fitted. This continued right through 1948 and the last reference to a 8" unit been used is early 1949.
Now it appears that the Vincent factory just used whatever Miller provided on that specific day and so in 1948 both sizes were been used side by side and there is a factory photo of a row of finished series B's showing the mix of headlight units. So you cannot just assume a series B had the larger 8" unit fitted and need to consult the factory records to be sure.

Of course there was the exception of the sealed beam lens unit that was a later requirement for the USA market. This was a true 7" diameter lens unit and so a special conversion rim was used to fit it to the standard smaller headlight shell. These are clearly identified in the records.

Simon