Lucas Mag' Earth Brush Holder Thread

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
When the engines are wicked from 1500 rpm to 6500 (red line for a 4 and1/2 inch stroke motors due to extreme piston speed) the Timing light shows at the degree wheel when 6500 rpm is reached 40 to 39 degree advance, back to idle 1500 shows 45 degrees.
OK, I think I followed everything. But, to be clear, are you saying that with your engine with its timing fixed at 45 deg. at idle, that it changes to 39-40 deg. at 6500 rpm, but returns to 45 deg. again when droped back to idle? That is, even though the timing is "fixed" on your machine, something causes the sparks to come ~5 deg. too soon at high rpm? Do I understand correctly?
 

Kansas Bad Man

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Dear Moderator, if you are going to delete this post, please also delete Magnetoman's post #20. Thanks, Ken.

So, you are now a mind reader, are you, Magnetoman? Perhaps "the other guy" (me) couldn't care less whether or not you recommend the replacement condenser. My gripe is with your repeated assertions on the Britbike forum that I am untrustworthy, and your repeated references on this forum and others to what you said on the Britbike forum.

With me its pointing out that l am a ME ME ME kind of guy. He seams to have his opinions on people that's my opinion, we all have one.
 

Kansas Bad Man

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
OK, I think I followed everything. But, to be clear, are you saying that with your engine with its timing fixed at 45 deg. at idle, that it changes to 39-40 deg. at 6500 rpm, but returns to 45 deg. again when droped back to idle? That is, even though the timing is "fixed" on your machine, something causes the sparks to come ~5 deg. too soon at high rpm? Do I understand correctly?


Bingo you got it Magnetomsn.

Gone fast, going to go faster!
Owner of the worlds most powerful VINCENT
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The ignition is pointless H.D..set at exact 50 degrees. ... The rear engine drives the distributor . Timing light shows at the degree wheels.
Presumably you don't want the bike to be firing 5 deg. too early so you would like to eliminate this problem. If there is a false trigger to the strobe, the engine might not be firing early, but you would like to identify and eliminate that problem as well if that is the case.

Although there's not enough information to diagnose why you are having the problem, the first thing I would do would be to substitute a completely different timing light, powered by an independent battery, in case the one you are using is being triggered by a false signal from the distributor via the battery. The next place I would look for the problem would be the distributor, using an independent strobe to examine it while a second one is on the degree wheel. I also would be studying the pulses in the HT lines themselves using an oscilloscope with a direct voltage pickup (i.e. not an inductive pickup) at the plug cap. If neither of these approaches identified the problem, my next step probably would be to try to convince the owner to let me install a rotary shaft encoder on the engine itself to get a direct timing reading rather than rely on a strobe flashing on a protractor.
 

Kansas Bad Man

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Presumably you don't want the bike to be firing 5 deg. too early so you would like to eliminate this problem. If there is a false trigger to the strobe, the engine might not be firing early, but you would like to identify and eliminate that problem as well if that is the case.

Although there's not enough information to diagnose why you are having the problem, the first thing I would do would be to substitute a completely different timing light, powered by an independent battery, in case the one you are using is being triggered by a false signal from the distributor via the battery. The next place I would look for the problem would be the distributor, using an independent strobe to examine it while a second one is on the degree wheel. I also would be studying the pulses in the HT lines themselves using an oscilloscope with a direct voltage pickup (i.e. not an inductive pickup) at the plug cap. If neither of these approaches identified the problem, my next step probably would be to try to convince the owner to let me install a rotary shaft encoder on the engine itself to get a direct timing reading rather than rely on a strobe flashing on a protractor.


Thanks for the offer but not needed. the retard at 6500 is not any thing electrical, its mechanical. Its all the clearances, gear backlash, spindle to bush, and mainly the extreme pleasure on the main bearing and crankcase area moving the half time gear further from the idler increasing the backlash clearance and a multitude of other things all mechanical causing the 5 deg retard, which is a good thing. are you familiar with the advance hold retard ignition curves used on blown engines running fuel?

Gone fast , going to go faster!

Owner of the worlds most powerful VINCENT
 

Ken Targett

Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
As a p.s. to my previous post, nowhere on Britbike Forum did I say you were untrustworthy. In light of the many verifiable complaints people have about magnetos restored by a number of people, in more than one place I certainly did issue cautions when selecting a magneto repairman, but nowhere did I either recommend someone to use, or not to use, nor did I name anyone as untrustworthy. ....
My point is, Magnetoman, that you referred to three sources of condensers that were/are sold as magneto condensers. To a significant proportion of the audience, it would be clear that one of those sources is my company. You followed that by saying ... as far as replacement condensers are concerned, you are well advised to trust none of what you hear ...

And I see that on the current thread on here on magneto polarity, you've posted another off-topic link to what you said on the Britbike forum.
 

mercurycrest

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I don’t know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway
Whatever it is, I’m against it!
No matter what it is
Or who commenced it
I’m against it!
Your proposition may be good
But let’s have one thing understood
Whatever it is, I’m against it!
And even when you’ve changed it
Or condensed it
I’m against it!
o_O
 
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