That sounds right, best do an annual check on the oil for the gearbox, from what I've been told.
Glen
Glen
PD: Primary Drive Rapide Chain Problem
- Thread starter bmetcalf
- Start date
I brought 5 Mcdougallators to England in 2007. I wonder if one of those was yours?I don't do many miles now, But John said in his instructions there would be noise , Clacking at low speed ?,
But I have not heard any problem,
One of our lads said the drive can lose oil ?,
But I have checked mine and it's OK.
I am pleased with it, Lot of money at the time , But I had had a good few weeks work,
So treated myself.
Glen
I think that probably the main thing about the McDougalator compared with the Alton is it has a lot more momentum. It has a roughly 3 1/2" rotor with heavy magnets that is turning faster than engine speed around a stationary coil. That is why it needs the slip clutch to work without overloading the chain. The McDougalator does deliver a lot of power but that isn't what causes the problem with wrecking the teeth. 250 Watts is only .33 HP. If it was the continuous load from the high power output the slip clutch could only prevent that load by slipping just about all the time. I am pretty sure it doesn't slip except when there is a really sudden change of engine speed. I was warned to check the oil. The only way to do that with the standard unit is to remove it. So I wouldn't have to do that chore annually I added a dipstick. I have about 12,000 miles on it now. I hope it doesn't cause trouble with the primary chain. So far it is OK. LED bulbs are making it possible to have bright lights even with 6 volts so high output alternators are not really necessary any more. If you want electric vests and gloves though I guess you still need the McDougalator. Robert Watson's Woolly has an alternator similar to the Kubota one that the McDougalator is but spun by a small belt. I think it has higher output than the McDougalator and more momentum as well. He has used it for a long time with little trouble. The belt slips enough to prevent damage to the chain.
No Glen, My brother Ron went over your way, For a holiday , He got one for himself and one for me.
Nigel wrote "I think that probably the main thing about the McDougalator compared with the Alton is it has a lot more momentum. It has a roughly 3 1/2" rotor with heavy magnets that is turning faster than engine speed around a stationary coil. That is why it needs the slip clutch to work without overloading the chain. The McDougalator does deliver a lot of power but that isn't what causes the problem with wrecking the teeth. 250 Watts is only .33 HP. If it was the continuous load from the high power output the slip
clutch could only prevent that load by slipping just about all the time."
The Mcdougallator is deliberately designed to make very good power at low rpm. John was aware of the need to balance the electrical load at the low rpm levels one sees on a Vincent in town traffic.
I guess that is why it is stuck with so much inertia/momentum.
The Alton is much less powerful at low RPM, but the armature is light, the magnets are relatively weak and the loading on the chain is very light.
I believe that's why my primary chain still looks like new at 36,000 miles.
There was an earlier version of the Alton that had an overdrive gearbox like the Mcdougallator.
It was a bit of a beast to turn over and likely would have shortened primary chain life, except it's own trans was the weak point. It always made a lot of clacking noises at low speed and on kickover, never a good thing.
I got 5,000 miles out of that one before the internal nylon gears sheared off. Put new ones in and got another 3500 miles down the road before those let go. Tried a custom set of 4340 gears and filling the unit with gear oil rather than grease, but that failed too.
So the simple and very light direct drive Alton has been a nice upgrade. As you say with modern LEDs, the power needs are lowered.
Glen
clutch could only prevent that load by slipping just about all the time."
The Mcdougallator is deliberately designed to make very good power at low rpm. John was aware of the need to balance the electrical load at the low rpm levels one sees on a Vincent in town traffic.
I guess that is why it is stuck with so much inertia/momentum.
The Alton is much less powerful at low RPM, but the armature is light, the magnets are relatively weak and the loading on the chain is very light.
I believe that's why my primary chain still looks like new at 36,000 miles.
There was an earlier version of the Alton that had an overdrive gearbox like the Mcdougallator.
It was a bit of a beast to turn over and likely would have shortened primary chain life, except it's own trans was the weak point. It always made a lot of clacking noises at low speed and on kickover, never a good thing.
I got 5,000 miles out of that one before the internal nylon gears sheared off. Put new ones in and got another 3500 miles down the road before those let go. Tried a custom set of 4340 gears and filling the unit with gear oil rather than grease, but that failed too.
So the simple and very light direct drive Alton has been a nice upgrade. As you say with modern LEDs, the power needs are lowered.
Glen
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Hi Bruce
I believe your 99 vintage unit is similar to my 2011 unit, but yours might have slightly weaker magnets.
Some owners of your type unit complained that it did not produce enough power at lower speeds. "150 watts easy at 100 mph " was the joke going around.
Paul Hamon responded by building a 3 phase unit. This was around 2005. I got one of the first 3 phase units. It worked ok when cold but became ineffective as it warmed up. Paul thought it might be a fault in the Podtronics reg/rec I had chosen to use instead of opting for the Alton supplied reg/rec.
It's ironic because today Alton will only supply a Podtronics.
Anyway, I contacted Bob Kizer of Podtronics and he was very helpful. I should say doubtful but helpful. At that time he had sold something like 11 thousand Pods and had 3 go bad.
A lot of testing was done but in the end Paul said " There is something wrong with my three phase design, I don't know what it is. I will send you a new single phase unit which has very powerful magnets and is sped up by an internal transmission. It will make some noise on kickover"
That was the one that sheared it's teeth off twice.
Paul was good though, when I encountered the problems he sent me his next model free of charge. It is single phase and the magnets do not seem overly powerful. I can easily grab the little armature end and spin it over. You can feel the magnets but there isn't much resistance.
A very long winded way of saying, I think you have a good un!
Glen
I believe your 99 vintage unit is similar to my 2011 unit, but yours might have slightly weaker magnets.
Some owners of your type unit complained that it did not produce enough power at lower speeds. "150 watts easy at 100 mph " was the joke going around.
Paul Hamon responded by building a 3 phase unit. This was around 2005. I got one of the first 3 phase units. It worked ok when cold but became ineffective as it warmed up. Paul thought it might be a fault in the Podtronics reg/rec I had chosen to use instead of opting for the Alton supplied reg/rec.
It's ironic because today Alton will only supply a Podtronics.
Anyway, I contacted Bob Kizer of Podtronics and he was very helpful. I should say doubtful but helpful. At that time he had sold something like 11 thousand Pods and had 3 go bad.
A lot of testing was done but in the end Paul said " There is something wrong with my three phase design, I don't know what it is. I will send you a new single phase unit which has very powerful magnets and is sped up by an internal transmission. It will make some noise on kickover"
That was the one that sheared it's teeth off twice.
Paul was good though, when I encountered the problems he sent me his next model free of charge. It is single phase and the magnets do not seem overly powerful. I can easily grab the little armature end and spin it over. You can feel the magnets but there isn't much resistance.
A very long winded way of saying, I think you have a good un!
Glen
This is the support box setup I used when I had the UFM off. The blocking at the front contacts the front engine plates, so it would not facilitate removing them, if need be. I can't remember what I did ~15 years ago when the motor was apart. It seems like if I made a new one piece box for this purpose, it would need supports under the clutch and G50 and maybe a 2x4 piece under the engine and that would do while stripping the cases for splitting. A copy of @litnman 's stand shown on the Forum a few years ago could be used after that stage.
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This is a very familiar tool, but I wanted to share it. I labeled it and store it in my Whitworth, etc. tool drawer.
I am slipping a little bit, I didn't keep all the piles of parts to put back in in front of me, so I had to disassemble to install the oil slinger behind the dynamo sprocket, the C15 tubes, and the o-ring on the end of the clutch nut. I have gotten really good at tightening those nine clutch screws! Also, I finally painted the tight fitting screwdriver for the screws, so that I can always find it and not use it for anything else.
I am slipping a little bit, I didn't keep all the piles of parts to put back in in front of me, so I had to disassemble to install the oil slinger behind the dynamo sprocket, the C15 tubes, and the o-ring on the end of the clutch nut. I have gotten really good at tightening those nine clutch screws! Also, I finally painted the tight fitting screwdriver for the screws, so that I can always find it and not use it for anything else.