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Tech. Advice: Series 'B' / 'C' 500cc/1000cc Bikes
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<blockquote data-quote="KennyNUT" data-source="post: 57386" data-attributes="member: 3057"><p>Howard, </p><p></p><p>I hope I have stirred a few comments in a good way.</p><p></p><p>This is only my second thread that I have ever started and on both occasions, I have been blown away by the great comments, enthusiasm and support and from my earlier thread even met a new friend, Rob who lives locally who called to try and help, and now visits me from time to time on his Black Shadow. I may even have experienced some humour. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> And then there is the Spares Co. All these things are what I think keeps the Vincent scene thriving. Did I mention the bikes!!!!!, Of course, those too. And there are so many publications. And none of this would ever happen without people, the owners, the engineers, the authors, the experimentalists, the curious, ..... well the list goes on and on.</p><p></p><p>Ok so back to why I logged back on today. A couple of hours ago saw me continue with the removal of the head and barrel. I didn't remove the piston, and I will get to that. (Sorry to those who have done this a hundred times, but this is my first , so I hope you excuse my excitement and curiosity).</p><p></p><p>So:</p><p></p><p>1. Off came the retaining nuts by loosening the lock nuts and out came the pushrods and then I pushed the pushrod covers down gently and square to the o-ring glands going into the timing chest, due to their splayed angle. They needed to be clear of the head before lifting it off.</p><p>2. I pulled gently on the head and whilst it rocked ever so slightly it didn't come up by more than a millimetre (ahem about a 1/16").</p><p>3. 5 gentle taps with the rubber mallet onto a block of wood across the fins on all four sides and it gave very nicely. So off it came.</p><p>4. The exhaust was fully removed and the same approach with the barrel as in step 3 and it came out beautifully from the crankcase to reveal what I believe to be close to a brand new piston and rings. And a modern one, too. I will go through all those historical receipts again! The base gasket came too, of course.</p><p>5. All removed parts were put in a labelled box.</p><p>6. The head, after being photographed and now minus spark plug and oil line bolts/washers was wrapped up in newspaper as was the liner and carefully double boxed up with polystyrene chippings, ready to ship off to Simon Linford.</p><p></p><p>Before packing everything up and tidying up, I called my Velo friend over as I was keen to show the liner and piston to get a second opinion. I had also formed an educated guess on the head and was keen to share some thoughts.</p><p></p><p>Of course, as per day one (Saturday), I video'd and photographed what I found.</p><p></p><p>Some example images below:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3253[/ATTACH]</p><p>This was pretty much my start point for today. Quick question - are these the metering wires that have</p><p>been highlighted in earlier replies ? They run through a very fine hole in the locknut that is below</p><p>the oil bolt that I replaced (so I did not loose it), next to the inspection cap. There is wire on both inlet</p><p>and exhaust valves.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3256[/ATTACH]</p><p>Ok, heads off, followed by a liner that just glided off the crankcase.</p><p>Gunge at the base seems to be heavy grease (clean with no grit).</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3258[/ATTACH]</p><p>Ok, barrel and liner is out to reveal what I believe to be a near new piston</p><p>and very modern looking rings. Its so new looking, that maybe the</p><p>500 miles on the speedometer is a reflection of when that was replaced??</p><p>Never mentioned at the time of sale!</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3259[/ATTACH]</p><p>That's the piston as it came out. I have not cleaned it in any way.</p><p>I was surprised that there is no carbon build up at all. There is fresh soot</p><p>on the inside of the exhaust that I removed.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3260[/ATTACH]</p><p>I am no expert but the VOC stamp indicates a new piston?</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3261[/ATTACH]</p><p>And on the other side. Ok so you want to see the thrust side don't you?</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3262[/ATTACH]</p><p>The marks that you see here half way down the piston skirt are light refractive marks</p><p>marks and are so light that they cannot be felt either by the pad of my finger</p><p>nor with my nail. The most prominent marks are the circular machining!</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3263[/ATTACH]</p><p>This is the front of the piston (please excuse the spark plug cable that is a</p><p>little in the way). Only bedding in around the skirt of the piston, again only visible under flash photography</p><p>and the lighter mark that you can see (RHS) is just a reflection of the fluorescent tube in my garage.</p><p>Ok so what does the liner look like?</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3264[/ATTACH]</p><p>So straight to it this time! The thrust side (oil hole left of centre) shows a few vertical back marks, but again that is all</p><p>they are. They cannot be felt by the finger or the nail. And prominent are the honing marks.</p><p>The top end (furthest away) at the head end is so clean, no marks.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3264[/ATTACH]</p><p>And opposite the oil hole, so the front side of the barrel. Again, light refractive marks.</p><p>No physical marking can be felt. That darker mark is not a ridge. It cannot be felt at all.</p><p>Confirmed with a second opinion.</p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]3266[/ATTACH]</p><p>And finally...... the head. Again, I am no expert but the valve seat on the exhaust valve side does not</p><p>look so good, especially at the side closer to the spark plug. The seat for the inlet by comparison looks so</p><p>much better. The only other thing that occurs to me that was mentioned in an earlier reply was to</p><p>replace the springs. This may be a coincidence but when the head was lying on this side, oil was</p><p>weeping in through the valve seat from the top side. Could the springs be weak as well in combination with the carbon</p><p>build up and possibly damaged valve seat to prevent sealing of the combustion chamber? I cannot test that and will</p><p>happily agree to replacing them, anyway, just in case they are very tired.</p><p></p><p>So, my non-expert diagnosis is piston and barrel are fine and totally serviceable, bordering on new. My Velo friend</p><p>who dismantles and rebuilds bikes and has parts laser scanned etc agrees 100% with the liner condition and the piston.</p><p>I will send the barrel to Simon Linford, anyway, to have it double checked by measurement and keep the piston on the</p><p>con rod for now unless it is requested. The other giveaway on the newness of the piston, in case anyone asks was the dot matrix stamping</p><p>on the piston crown indicating a series of numbers and the compression of 7.3:1, together with the letters "Exh" to indicate the orientation of the piston (which is correct)!!</p><p></p><p><em>The head - I believe this is where all my problems lie. I am sure any psychiatrists amongst you will understand that sentiment in a slightly different way!</em></p><p><em></em></p><p>So its time to take a break from the computer. Hope you enjoyed today's instalment and I have not upset anyone with my lack of engineering prowess, misuse of terms or descriptions. I just describe things as I see them.</p><p>have a great night, if in the Northern hemisphere or "good morning" to those in the Southern hemisphere.</p><p></p><p>Cheers, Kenny.</p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KennyNUT, post: 57386, member: 3057"] Howard, I hope I have stirred a few comments in a good way. This is only my second thread that I have ever started and on both occasions, I have been blown away by the great comments, enthusiasm and support and from my earlier thread even met a new friend, Rob who lives locally who called to try and help, and now visits me from time to time on his Black Shadow. I may even have experienced some humour. :D And then there is the Spares Co. All these things are what I think keeps the Vincent scene thriving. Did I mention the bikes!!!!!, Of course, those too. And there are so many publications. And none of this would ever happen without people, the owners, the engineers, the authors, the experimentalists, the curious, ..... well the list goes on and on. Ok so back to why I logged back on today. A couple of hours ago saw me continue with the removal of the head and barrel. I didn't remove the piston, and I will get to that. (Sorry to those who have done this a hundred times, but this is my first , so I hope you excuse my excitement and curiosity). So: 1. Off came the retaining nuts by loosening the lock nuts and out came the pushrods and then I pushed the pushrod covers down gently and square to the o-ring glands going into the timing chest, due to their splayed angle. They needed to be clear of the head before lifting it off. 2. I pulled gently on the head and whilst it rocked ever so slightly it didn't come up by more than a millimetre (ahem about a 1/16"). 3. 5 gentle taps with the rubber mallet onto a block of wood across the fins on all four sides and it gave very nicely. So off it came. 4. The exhaust was fully removed and the same approach with the barrel as in step 3 and it came out beautifully from the crankcase to reveal what I believe to be close to a brand new piston and rings. And a modern one, too. I will go through all those historical receipts again! The base gasket came too, of course. 5. All removed parts were put in a labelled box. 6. The head, after being photographed and now minus spark plug and oil line bolts/washers was wrapped up in newspaper as was the liner and carefully double boxed up with polystyrene chippings, ready to ship off to Simon Linford. Before packing everything up and tidying up, I called my Velo friend over as I was keen to show the liner and piston to get a second opinion. I had also formed an educated guess on the head and was keen to share some thoughts. Of course, as per day one (Saturday), I video'd and photographed what I found. Some example images below: [ATTACH=full]3253[/ATTACH] This was pretty much my start point for today. Quick question - are these the metering wires that have been highlighted in earlier replies ? They run through a very fine hole in the locknut that is below the oil bolt that I replaced (so I did not loose it), next to the inspection cap. There is wire on both inlet and exhaust valves. [ATTACH=full]3256[/ATTACH] Ok, heads off, followed by a liner that just glided off the crankcase. Gunge at the base seems to be heavy grease (clean with no grit). [ATTACH=full]3258[/ATTACH] Ok, barrel and liner is out to reveal what I believe to be a near new piston and very modern looking rings. Its so new looking, that maybe the 500 miles on the speedometer is a reflection of when that was replaced?? Never mentioned at the time of sale! [ATTACH=full]3259[/ATTACH] That's the piston as it came out. I have not cleaned it in any way. I was surprised that there is no carbon build up at all. There is fresh soot on the inside of the exhaust that I removed. [ATTACH=full]3260[/ATTACH] I am no expert but the VOC stamp indicates a new piston? [ATTACH=full]3261[/ATTACH] And on the other side. Ok so you want to see the thrust side don't you? [ATTACH=full]3262[/ATTACH] The marks that you see here half way down the piston skirt are light refractive marks marks and are so light that they cannot be felt either by the pad of my finger nor with my nail. The most prominent marks are the circular machining! [ATTACH=full]3263[/ATTACH] This is the front of the piston (please excuse the spark plug cable that is a little in the way). Only bedding in around the skirt of the piston, again only visible under flash photography and the lighter mark that you can see (RHS) is just a reflection of the fluorescent tube in my garage. Ok so what does the liner look like? [ATTACH=full]3264[/ATTACH] So straight to it this time! The thrust side (oil hole left of centre) shows a few vertical back marks, but again that is all they are. They cannot be felt by the finger or the nail. And prominent are the honing marks. The top end (furthest away) at the head end is so clean, no marks. [ATTACH=full]3264[/ATTACH] And opposite the oil hole, so the front side of the barrel. Again, light refractive marks. No physical marking can be felt. That darker mark is not a ridge. It cannot be felt at all. Confirmed with a second opinion. [ATTACH=full]3266[/ATTACH] And finally...... the head. Again, I am no expert but the valve seat on the exhaust valve side does not look so good, especially at the side closer to the spark plug. The seat for the inlet by comparison looks so much better. The only other thing that occurs to me that was mentioned in an earlier reply was to replace the springs. This may be a coincidence but when the head was lying on this side, oil was weeping in through the valve seat from the top side. Could the springs be weak as well in combination with the carbon build up and possibly damaged valve seat to prevent sealing of the combustion chamber? I cannot test that and will happily agree to replacing them, anyway, just in case they are very tired. So, my non-expert diagnosis is piston and barrel are fine and totally serviceable, bordering on new. My Velo friend who dismantles and rebuilds bikes and has parts laser scanned etc agrees 100% with the liner condition and the piston. I will send the barrel to Simon Linford, anyway, to have it double checked by measurement and keep the piston on the con rod for now unless it is requested. The other giveaway on the newness of the piston, in case anyone asks was the dot matrix stamping on the piston crown indicating a series of numbers and the compression of 7.3:1, together with the letters "Exh" to indicate the orientation of the piston (which is correct)!! [I]The head - I believe this is where all my problems lie. I am sure any psychiatrists amongst you will understand that sentiment in a slightly different way! [/I] So its time to take a break from the computer. Hope you enjoyed today's instalment and I have not upset anyone with my lack of engineering prowess, misuse of terms or descriptions. I just describe things as I see them. have a great night, if in the Northern hemisphere or "good morning" to those in the Southern hemisphere. Cheers, Kenny. [I] [/I] [/QUOTE]
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