One of the most common questions we get asked on our forum website is "I'm thinking of buying a Vincent - what should I look out for?"
Before parting with your hard-earned cash, you should always do your homework and work out exactly what you want, and exactly what you're buying.
There are three main ways of buying a Vincent
1. Online Auction
2. Bonhams
3. A 'For Sale' advert through the pages of MPH
4. Through The VOC Spares Company Limited
At Vincent Spares we act as agents for the sale of Vincent motorcycles, often on behalf of VOC members and their families. In fact probably more Vincents go through our doors than through those of any other seller in the world. We use our collective 70 years of Club and Company experience to advise on the bikes we choose to sell.
And of course, given that we are the Vincent Owners Club company, we authenticate each of these Vincents using the Club’s unique database and bring our collective Club and Company experience to bear. We are of course also the world’s largest supplier of Vincent spares, and the only supplier supplying parts to official VOC Club component drawings.
But please remember that the youngest Vincent is now over 65 years old (and they were originally expected to last perhaps 10 years). They were designed and made at a time when riders expected and attended to frequent maintenance issues.
We always encourage new buyers to join the Vincent Owners Club, and put new buyers in touch with their local VOC Section where they will be assured of a warm welcome, as well as technical support and friendly bike-banter. some further hints on where you can find further information may be found on our help page (button left)
We review each bike based on discussions with the seller and visual inspection, and informally allocate it to one of our three condition categories below.
All sales are strictly subject to our terms and conditions which we provide when upon enquiry.
Remember, unlike auction houses we charge no buyer costs or buyer premium (which can get substantial).
‘Matching Numbers’ Vincents (highlighted in red)
These are ‘matching numbers’ bikes (ie main components have identical numbers to those in the factory records) that have been fully authenticated, and appear visually to be both in good condition and potentially fit for riding as a classic bike. These include some of the best examples of the marque, which are likely to be investment-grade machines. We can even arrange for a photo opportunity of you taking ownership of your classic Vincent at our headquarters.
Vincent Spares stock all the Vincent parts that you will need to maintain your Premium machine, and we offer a continuing 10% discount to Club Members.
Please note we are relying on visual and factory record inspection, owner’s description and we do not undertake a full mechanical examination. We can arrange for an independent, experienced mechanic to undertake a mechanical review of the bike (at buyer’s cost) if required.
A Rider’s Vincent (Highlighted in green)
Whilst we authenticate the history of these bikes, they may not be matching numbers and appearance may be well road-ridden and in need of some attention. Descriptions from seller and our own visual inspection suggests that they are reasonable examples which should potentially be fit for classic-bike riding (although we do not undertake a detailed mechanical inspection and no guarantee is given).
Vincent Spares stock all the Vincent parts that you will need to maintain your Rider’s machine, and on most parts we can offer a 15% discount to Club Members for 12 months from purchase on Rider’s bikes (10% thereafter).
We can arrange for an experienced mechanic to undertake a mechanical review of the bike (at buyers cost) if required.
A Project Bike (Highlighted in blue)
These may be examples from unfinished projects, look somewhat tired, or bikes that have not been ridden for many years. Whilst we will check history of key components (engine, frame), buyers should expect to invest significant time by a skilled classic bike mechanic to get these into proper and safe riding order. It is worth noting that a matching numbers bike in poor condition may be regarded as a project bike.
Vincent Spares stock all the Vincent parts that you will need to restore your machine, and on most parts we can offer a 20% discount on large spares orders to Club Members for 12 months from purchase of a Project Bike bought from us (10% thereafter).
Contact us in confidence. We have a world wide audience of customers actively looking for Shadows, Rapides and Comets for riding and/or restoring. Many of our customers are VOC members, so you know your beloved bike is going to a good home.
Do you have a machine and are considering selling? Have a chat with our MD, Bob Patchett, who will provide an expert view on how to present, possible selling price and any pre-work that would be helpful. Remember, we probably arrange sales for more Vincents in a year than anyone else.
In addition, you save on auction house fees, negotiation and payment hassle, as well as the worry of strangers visiting your home to view a bike.
Contact our MD Bob Patchett to see if we can help +44 (0) 1536 312 220
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and together, but nothing like as sexy as the JMC machine featured in Classic Bike recently. Unlike the Triton, it is comfortable but not quick. So, all I need now is a really nice NorVin to complete the set.
Clearly others also want new bikes because Bob Patchett tells me that we are selling quite a few from The VOC Spares Company Limited at the moment. A very nice Comet, in touring specification, has just gone for around £20,000, and the same day Bob sold a Rapide as well. As you will recall selling bikes is a service The VOC Spares Company Limited provides to Members and their relatives, but we can also extend that to others outside the Club who want to sell a bike through a thoughtful and non-aggressive company. The benefit for the vendors is that the Spares Company deals with all the negotiation and validates the bike against the Machine Registrar’s database. In addition of course we supply advice and spares to the new owners and hopefully convince them to join the Club.
Recent IT changes in the VOC have caused some brisk discussion and a lot of work for Phil Mahood, so I hesitate to mention that this year will also see some changes to the Spares Company IT systems. We are undertaking a complete re-vamp of the platforms that support both the webshop and the stock management. These will replace the existing Mamut system tha
auction buying
“Don’t forget the commission. You’ll have a percentage of the hammer price to pay (typically 10-15%), then VAT on that commission. If you pay £5000, you’ll likely be looking at £750 commission, then £150 VAT. So, a bike you bought for five grand will actually cost you £5900.
“Speak to the auctioneers first, to look at any paperwork they might have. It also gives you a chance to get to know them, and make them aware you’re interested in the bike.
“A seller can legally bid on their own bike, up to the reserve price, to get the bidding moving. Bonhams have a catalogue for each auction, and if the estimate price is £4000-£5000, the bidding will often start around £2000, but it’s a fair bet that the lower estimate is the reserve price.
“I’m always half looking for a bargain, and set a price that I won’t go over. Having said that, if I’ve absolutely set my heart on something (or someone else has asked me to bid for something they desperately want), then I’m going with the mindset of ‘I’m having that bike’, but that’s unusual in my case – normally I have a strict limit, then walk away. Prices can get out of control, especially when classic bikes are auctioned alongside classic cars – a car enthusiast might have decided they’d pay one and a half million for something, so when they see a bike for twenty five grand, it’s a bargain to them! I wasn’t looking for this Ducati, but picked it up at a good price of £1800. I don’t want to think about what I’ve spent on it since though…
“When I’m checking a bike over, I look for things that don’t look right:
Do the control cables run correctly? Does the inside of the tank look clean and rust-free? I always get down low behind the bike, to see if it’s wonky. It’s the obvious, badly bodged things I’m checking. If it doesn’t seem right, I’ll walk away.”
Online vs real-world auctions
If you have ever bought anything on eBay, you already know what an auction is and the real-world event is very similar to the online version. Motorcycle auctions are sales where a number of bikes are brought to a single location and then sold individually to the highest bidder.
While on eBay you are only bidding on a photograph and description of something, at an auction the vehicles are on display before the event.
Why not just sell the bikes through a traditional motorcycle dealership?
There are two answers to this question.
1) High-end auctions
High-end auctions – such as the ones run by leading European auctioneer Bonhams – generally specialise in premium or rare machines that often have a high price tag. That said, Bonhams also sells lower priced bikes and motoring memorabilia alongside these top-end machines. If you want to sell it, Bonhams will put it under the hammer. But where do the bikes come from?
Brough Superior project auction
1927 Brough Superior 981cc SS100 Alpine Grand Sport Project Sold for £276,420 Autumn Stafford 2015
Buyers and sellers
Many of the bikes sold by Bonhams are from private collections where the collector has either passed away or simply wants to cash in on their investment.
Other lots arrive from individuals wanting to sell their bike or bikes and some machines are sold by enthusiasts who love to restore bikes and then sell them at the auction to fund the next project – it’s a wide mix of both buyers and sellers.
When it comes to buying and selling, you get a wider range of vehicles at an auction than any traditional dealership could afford to stock and that’s a major part of their draw.
Bimota 970cc
1975 Bimota 970cc HB1 Sold for £59,000 Spring Stafford 2014
At a high-end auction
An average Bonhams motorcycle auction will contain around 250 bikes and attracts a well-informed and enthusiastic audience who know what a bike is worth and are prepared to pay some pretty impressive figures if necessary.
Recently, for example, a 1948 Vincent-HRD Black Shadow Series-B sold for £113,500 during a Bonhams auction, while a 1937 Brough Superior combination sold for £85,500.
1938 Brough Superior
1938 Brough Superior 982cc SS100 Project Sold for £179,120 Spring Stafford 2016
That said, a 1960 BSA Bantam also went for £1,150 in a Bonham’s auction last year (it was a bit rusty), so don’t be put off attending by the headline sales. The fact it costs £25 just to attend a Bonhams auction (the price of the catalogue, which doubles up as an entrance ticket for two people) also helps to ensure the audience are serious about their bikes and not tyre kickers.
Bonhams auctions aren’t frequent. The firm run two dedicated bike auctions in the UK every year in Stafford, however bikes are often sold alongside cars in various other overseas Bonhams auctions in locations such as Las Vegas and Paris.
2. Commercial auctions
Many companies – such as British Car Auctions (BCA) who are Europe’s biggest vehicle auction firm – are slightly less exclusive. BCA has 23 auction centres in the UK but mainly runs motorcycle auctions from its Peterborough site once a month.
BCA supersale 2016
BCA Supersale 2016: no shortage of bikes to choose from
Buyers and sellers
Where Bonhams gets its bikes from collectors and enthusiasts, BCA’s lots are generally from dealerships, ex-fleet vehicles (which can include ex-police or courier bikes) or repossessed through finance companies. An auction is a quick and easy way to get rid of motorcycles and, unlike dealerships, a finance company isn’t prepared to hold out to get the highest value possible, it just wants shot of them.
Often buyers are Europeans taking advantage of the weak pound
You do get private individuals selling through commercial auctions, but in general it is trade and that means modern motorcycles likes the ones you find in dealerships rather than classics.
If you are after a bargain modern bike, and are prepared to take a chance by buying with no warranty, a commercial auction is for you. It is for this reason that buyers tend to be in the motorcycle trade rather than enthusiastic collectors or private individuals and often buyers are from other European countries, taking advantage of the weak pound and exporting the bikes.
How an auction works – selling
Selling at a high-end auction
Ok, so you want to sell your classic bike through a Bonhams auction. After contacting the firm, Bonhams will ask for photographs of the bike, engine and frame numbers and details of how you came about the bike and how long you have owned it.
Research
They will then research the bike and come up with a suggested auction estimate, which is how much they feel it is going to make. This is basically a guide price and there is a good reason why they are often far lower than the bike will actually make: if it looks like a bargain, buyers will be encouraged to bid and once you start bidding…
Building the bike’s biography
If you are happy to continue, you also agree a reserve value, which is a minimum amount you will sell the vehicle for, and one of Bonhams’ dedicated catalogue specialists will construct an entry detailing the background on the bike to guide bidders as to why it’s worth buying.
This needs to include all the details that a buyer will be keen to know such as frame numbers, history, engine numbers, however they are not a guarantee that it runs and rides and that’s why prospective buyers are recommended to attend the sale.
1932 Brough Superior 800cc Model BS4
The ex-Hubert Chantrey, 1932 Brough Superior 800cc Model BS4 Project Sold for £339,280 Spring Stafford 2016
Fees
Bonhams can arrange for the bike to be transported to the auction (for an extra fee) and you can also increase your bike’s publicity by paying a bit more for a better place in the auction catalogue. If the bike sells, Bonhams will take a 10% seller’s commission (plus VAT) on the hammer price, but if it doesn’t sell there is no commission fee.
The entrance fee to the catalogue ranges from £30 to £120, which is all you pay if the bike fails to sell for its reserve value.
Selling at commercial auction
Private individuals can sell through a commercial auction and BCA has a simple online form to guide you through the process. There are boxes to tick involving the condition of the bike and its history and a ‘Conditions of Entry and Sale’ that state it has no major mechanical defects.
As with Bonhams, BCA will do a bit of the legwork for you and put the bike’s details up on the online form so potential buyers can view it beforehand.
1990 Honda RC30
Only 740 miles from new, 1990 Honda RC30 sold for $52,900 Las Vegas 2015
Fees
Fees vary from company to company, but, for example, BCA usually charge a flat fee rather than a percentage of the sale. For a single bike you can expect to pay in the region of £100 plus VAT.
It’s a sliding scale with multiple bikes helping reduce your costs. You can stick a reserve on the bike, but you will lose the fee if it doesn’t sell and, as with other auctions, the bike has to physically be at the auction.
On the day
Unlike Bonhams auctions, BCA will ride the bike across the sales room if it is mechanically sound and that means buyers get a chance to see and hear the vehicle in motion, so if you can get it running, it will help increase its value as no one likes to see a bike pushed across the block. You can also pay extra to get it valeted!
BCA employee
A BCA employee riding a lot before potential buyers
Don’t forget
If you are tempted to sell your bike through an auction, just remember, if it does sell there is no backing out as auction houses insist on having the vehicle’s logbook before the auction – when it’s gone it’s gone. However, if it doesn’t sell, that’s not necessarily the end of the story.
If the hammer falls and your bike hasn’t sold, don’t panic
If a bike fails to make its reserve, the auction house will often put the seller and the potential buyer (usually the last highest bidder) in contact at the event to try and get a compromise worked out. It’s in their interests to sell the vehicle as they get their commission, so if the hammer falls and your bike hasn’t sold, don’t panic, go and talk to the auction organisers.
How an auction works – buying
The hammer: legally binding
The first thing to understand about bidding in an auction is that it is ‘sold as seen’, ‘buyer beware’ and auctions give no guarantee about the vehicle so you can’t return it.
Also, when the hammer drops you have entered a legally binding agreement and that vehicle is yours and there is no backing out. It is for this reason that before you are given a bidding number you often need to provide evidence that you can afford the vehicle.
Inspect the lot
A key part of the auction is the fact that buyers can inspect the bike beforehand and while you aren’t allowed to attempt to start it, you can visually inspect it.
Canny buyers will also ask the employee riding the bike what it feels like
Bonhams will allow you to test things such as compression, which is a good guide to the motor’s health. At BCA auctions, vehicles that start are ridden into the showroom. This gives buyers a chance to hear it run and listen for worrying rattles. Canny buyers will also ask the employee riding the bike what it feels like…
Coventry Eagle 996cc Flying-Eight
1929 Coventry Eagle 996cc Flying-Eight Sold for £167,680 Spring Stafford 2016
To be or not to be (there)?
You don’t have to attend an auction in person and a lot of sales are done via the internet or telephone as auctions are often a global affair. But where’s the fun in that? You want to be in the heat of the battle and that means attending in person!
Bidding
Once in the auction, you simply show your bidding number to attract the attention of the auctioneer and keep showing it until the hammer drops or you decide that the price is too high and you drop out of the bidding.
This is the hard part! Being in an auction can be quite addictive and it is very easy to get swept up in the whole atmosphere and keep that bidding number raised. A lot of buyers set themselves fixed amounts they are prepared to go to – or bring a friend as a voice of reason!
Auction gavel
The highest bidder
Should you ‘win’ a bike, you then need to pay for it and work out how to get it home. Auction houses are often prepared to store vehicles after the auction (at the buyer’s expense) and can also arrange delivery, again for a fee.
You can pay via debit card, credit card or cash, however there is often a cash limit. Bank transfers are also acceptable, however they can take a while to clear and therefore you may incur storage fees.
Not all commercial auctions are open to the public, so you need to contact the auction house in advance to make sure you can attend.
Auction houses also charge a buyer’s fee or buyer’s premium, which is often in the region of 15%, so it is worth checking how much it is and taking this into account before you bid.
Brough motorbike
Why go to an auction?
There are two main reasons people go to an auction: to bag a bargain or to rubber-neck and see what is happening in the market.
High-end auctions
If you are genuinely interested in investing in a motorcycle or collection, high-end auctions are a great gauge as to where the market is going and what style of vehicle is worth either investing in or selling. A few bargains may well pop up, but not as many as you may imagine and there is an old adage ‘you make your money when you buy, not when you sell’ which sums the mood up perfectly.
You make your money when you buy, not when you sell
Some bikes – such as British classics like a Vincent or Brough – will ‘always’ go up in value. However, recent times have seen prices of the modern classics such as the Ducati 916 and original Honda FireBlade spiking. If you can predict a trend and buy before it kicks in, that’s where you make your money.
Indian 5hp 'Camelback'
c.1908 Indian 5hp ‘Camelback’ Twin Project Sold for £52,900 Spring Stafford 2016
Commercial auctions
These are a different prospect and buyers generally attend them in the hope of snapping up a cheap bike to then sell on. There is a risk attached as it is ‘sold as seen’, but more often than not the bikes sold are ex-fleet or finance vehicles and therefore relatively new. There are a few old bangers, which dealerships have accepted as trade-ins and just want to get rid of, but these stand out a mile and you know what you’re getting into.
The cool thing about any auction is that just as in a dealership, if you do buy a bike you can actually ride it home that day – provided it is road legal and insured – so bring your riding kit with you as well as your wallet!
Buying old motorbikes at auction – eight things to consider…
Old motorcycles get sold at specialist auctions for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s because it’s a grade-A ultra-rare classic or famous race bike that only comes up for sale rarely and the smart way for a seller to get the biggest audience and most money is in a prestige auction at one of the major auction houses. Other times it can be because a collector passes away, the family inherits the bike(s) and selling the lot in an auction is the most convenient, hassle-free and confident way to sell. And, of course, there are dozens of other reasons in between.
Buying a classic at auction isn’t necessarily the best way to buy a spotless, perfectly running bike with full-service history and fresh MoT that’s ready to roll. Bikes are sold-as-seen and although the auctioneers will try and get as much information as possible from the seller, sometimes there’s not a lot to go on.
And, in the weird world of classic bike buying, a non-running, slightly tatty bike can be worth more to collectors than a beautifully restored example. Ben Walker, head of motorcycles at Bonhams says, “Some collectors enjoy the process of fettling, others have their preferred specialist restorers that they like to use and for some, originality and patina add extra value. Plus, as strange as it seems, not all collectors are buying their bikes to ride.”
BikeSocial asked James Robinson, Editor of The Classic Motorcycle magazine and serial old-motorcycle collector for his advice for first-time auction buyers.
Set a price limit and stick to it
“Auction fever affects us all,” says James. “A friend of mine always writes three different figures; what she’d ‘like’ something to cost, what she’s prepared to bid, and what she could afford if it comes to it. But she rarely – if ever – strays beyond the second figure.”
When setting your own figures make sure you’ve allowed for the auctioneers' fees, VAT (if applicable) and the costs of transporting the bike home. If you’re buying a historic race bike for a six-figure sum, this is a lot of money. But even buying a run-of-the-mill 1960s British classic, you can easily end up paying more than it would have cost you from your local classic dealer.
Be realistic in your classic bike auction valuation
Before you enter the sale room, you should have a good idea of what the bike is worth. Looking at previous sale results and thinking ‘I’d have bought it for that’ is pointless. You wouldn’t and couldn’t have, because someone else bid that. So you’d have had to bid at least one more bid, and who knows where that would have taken you? Equally, don’t assume the catalogue guide price is the reserve. It could be, but most auction houses put a guide price at the very bottom end of expectations because they want to encourage as many potential buyers as possible into the auction and to bid on the item.
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This 1974 Norton Commando was previously owned by legendary rock star Keith Emerson. The paperwork proves it and added a significant amount to the price paid
Provenance is king at classic bike auctions
The oldest joke in classic bike trading is ‘BSA only made five of these and I’ve got all six of them in my garage.’ Many old bikes have had many of their parts replaced over the years. Sometimes it’s wear and tear, others because motorcyclists like to modify and, in the case of old race bikes because they get crashed, blown-up and rebuilt so often. If all six frames from a famous racer’s GP bike get restored and rebuilt using sets of crankcases also from the same team in the same season and are then furnished with restored bodywork from other bikes, it doesn’t take long before six separate people are claiming to own the championship winning bike from that particular season.
If you’re paying top-dollar for a unique and prized race bike, you need to be sure it’s actually unique and original. The best auction houses do their homework and only claim what they can prove. If the proof doesn’t exist (‘You’ll be surprised how often a collector passes away without the family being aware of the importance of paperwork relating to valuable bikes’ says Ben of Bonhams), the value of a bike can be seriously impacted.
Back in the real world of road bikes, if you are new to classic bikes, you’ll be interested to hear that not all bikes wear their original registration number. The machine might have been imported much later from other countries (huge numbers of British classics have been re-imported from the USA for example) and given an age-related reg-number. Original registration numbers and matching, original engine and frame numbers have long been prized, but on some bikes, things like gearbox numbers (many older bikes have separate gearboxes), for example, are considered too.
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At a big auction like the Bonhams Stafford Show sale, the bikes are lined up and other parts of the lot are usually viewed separately
Check what else is included in the lot
There may well be more bits and pieces along with the bike. Often, a motorcycle – in particular, an old motorcycle from a collection – will have spares and accessories with it. Or, even better, the original fitment parts that were taken off when the owner modified it. These parts are all worth money and, even the period modified parts you might swap back with the originals will be hard to find now. In the classic world (especially the older veteran and vintage bikes) pretty much everything is worth money.
Ben Walker from Bonhams says that when he goes to value a bike or a collection, he always asks what else there is and, if the sale is part of a inheritance sale, he asks if he can look around the garage or the office if the deceased had one. This is often where you find the treasure trove of spare parts, paperwork, manuals and more, which are all worth money to the seller while increasing the desirability to buyers.
Act quickly when the auction is over
Be aware that sale rooms attract light-fingered opportunists. At a recent major classic bike auction a Vincent lost its carburettor top, while one buyer bought a gearbox and a couple of sprockets, to find that, on collection, one of the sprockets had ‘disappeared.’ Collect your purchases as quickly as you can.
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One of these men is a leading UK classic bike dealer, the other is a mechanic. In the wild, they can be hard to tell apart. Both are lovely people, but in an auction, they are your rivals.
Know who you are bidding against
If you are bidding against a dealer, you will always (well, nearly always) win, as he or she is looking at paying a figure where there’s still a profit margin to be had. Given that auction prices reflect the perceived value of the bike in the room, plus the auctioneers' fees, plus VAT, the hammer price needs to be pretty low for a dealer to be interested (unless it’s a particularly collectible machine and the dealer already has a client waiting for it).
So, if you want the bike for yourself, a dealer can usually be outbid. How do you recognise a dealer? Sometimes it’s obvious – they’ll be wearing branded clothing or something similar. If not, then you can get a good idea of the people in the room by watching the auction from the back of the room. Private buyers and collectors will mostly be bidding on one or maybe two items, but dealers are likely to be bidding on multiple lots. Dealers will generally back away when the price reaches a certain level so, anyone bidding on lots of items, but winning few is likely to be in the trade.
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Spotting the rusty tank is easy, but six-gummed-up CV carbs and 45 years of multiple owner ‘improvements’ take a bit more investigation. Give yourself time and set your valuation accordingly.
Check the bike carefully and factor-in the additional costs
Auction bikes are sold-as-seen. At classic auctions it’s unlikely you’ll see them running or being ridden into the hall. The catalogue will give an indication of condition, but it’s up to you to check. Buying a relatively common bike at a classic auction is a good way of spending too much money on a bike needing too much unseen work. Taking a mate along to double-check is a very good idea, as is ticking items off a checklist.
A damaged or badly rusted petrol tank may cost a fortune to refinish – a machine with good paintwork can represent a bargain as even if other work is needed. A good paint job is a big expense saved.
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Forget ‘Bargain Hunt', the big classic bike auctions are very civilised with many overseas bidders on the phone or online.
Get to know the auction houses and the people who work there
The auction house staff will be around before the auction to answer questions. Say hello, be friendly, take the opportunity to make use of their expertise. It’s their job to get the best price for each bike but also to ensure all potential buyers get a chance. Once you’re a familiar and trusted face, then often you’ll be looked for in the crowd, and if there’s two of you trying to place the same bid at the same time, the final nod might come your way.
Before parting with your hard-earned cash, you should always do your homework and work out exactly what you want, and exactly what you're buying.
There are three main ways of buying a Vincent
1. Online Auction
2. Bonhams
3. A 'For Sale' advert through the pages of MPH
4. Through The VOC Spares Company Limited
At Vincent Spares we act as agents for the sale of Vincent motorcycles, often on behalf of VOC members and their families. In fact probably more Vincents go through our doors than through those of any other seller in the world. We use our collective 70 years of Club and Company experience to advise on the bikes we choose to sell.
And of course, given that we are the Vincent Owners Club company, we authenticate each of these Vincents using the Club’s unique database and bring our collective Club and Company experience to bear. We are of course also the world’s largest supplier of Vincent spares, and the only supplier supplying parts to official VOC Club component drawings.
But please remember that the youngest Vincent is now over 65 years old (and they were originally expected to last perhaps 10 years). They were designed and made at a time when riders expected and attended to frequent maintenance issues.
We always encourage new buyers to join the Vincent Owners Club, and put new buyers in touch with their local VOC Section where they will be assured of a warm welcome, as well as technical support and friendly bike-banter. some further hints on where you can find further information may be found on our help page (button left)
We review each bike based on discussions with the seller and visual inspection, and informally allocate it to one of our three condition categories below.
All sales are strictly subject to our terms and conditions which we provide when upon enquiry.
Remember, unlike auction houses we charge no buyer costs or buyer premium (which can get substantial).
‘Matching Numbers’ Vincents (highlighted in red)
These are ‘matching numbers’ bikes (ie main components have identical numbers to those in the factory records) that have been fully authenticated, and appear visually to be both in good condition and potentially fit for riding as a classic bike. These include some of the best examples of the marque, which are likely to be investment-grade machines. We can even arrange for a photo opportunity of you taking ownership of your classic Vincent at our headquarters.
Vincent Spares stock all the Vincent parts that you will need to maintain your Premium machine, and we offer a continuing 10% discount to Club Members.
Please note we are relying on visual and factory record inspection, owner’s description and we do not undertake a full mechanical examination. We can arrange for an independent, experienced mechanic to undertake a mechanical review of the bike (at buyer’s cost) if required.
A Rider’s Vincent (Highlighted in green)
Whilst we authenticate the history of these bikes, they may not be matching numbers and appearance may be well road-ridden and in need of some attention. Descriptions from seller and our own visual inspection suggests that they are reasonable examples which should potentially be fit for classic-bike riding (although we do not undertake a detailed mechanical inspection and no guarantee is given).
Vincent Spares stock all the Vincent parts that you will need to maintain your Rider’s machine, and on most parts we can offer a 15% discount to Club Members for 12 months from purchase on Rider’s bikes (10% thereafter).
We can arrange for an experienced mechanic to undertake a mechanical review of the bike (at buyers cost) if required.
A Project Bike (Highlighted in blue)
These may be examples from unfinished projects, look somewhat tired, or bikes that have not been ridden for many years. Whilst we will check history of key components (engine, frame), buyers should expect to invest significant time by a skilled classic bike mechanic to get these into proper and safe riding order. It is worth noting that a matching numbers bike in poor condition may be regarded as a project bike.
Vincent Spares stock all the Vincent parts that you will need to restore your machine, and on most parts we can offer a 20% discount on large spares orders to Club Members for 12 months from purchase of a Project Bike bought from us (10% thereafter).
Contact us in confidence. We have a world wide audience of customers actively looking for Shadows, Rapides and Comets for riding and/or restoring. Many of our customers are VOC members, so you know your beloved bike is going to a good home.
Do you have a machine and are considering selling? Have a chat with our MD, Bob Patchett, who will provide an expert view on how to present, possible selling price and any pre-work that would be helpful. Remember, we probably arrange sales for more Vincents in a year than anyone else.
In addition, you save on auction house fees, negotiation and payment hassle, as well as the worry of strangers visiting your home to view a bike.
Contact our MD Bob Patchett to see if we can help +44 (0) 1536 312 220
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and together, but nothing like as sexy as the JMC machine featured in Classic Bike recently. Unlike the Triton, it is comfortable but not quick. So, all I need now is a really nice NorVin to complete the set.
Clearly others also want new bikes because Bob Patchett tells me that we are selling quite a few from The VOC Spares Company Limited at the moment. A very nice Comet, in touring specification, has just gone for around £20,000, and the same day Bob sold a Rapide as well. As you will recall selling bikes is a service The VOC Spares Company Limited provides to Members and their relatives, but we can also extend that to others outside the Club who want to sell a bike through a thoughtful and non-aggressive company. The benefit for the vendors is that the Spares Company deals with all the negotiation and validates the bike against the Machine Registrar’s database. In addition of course we supply advice and spares to the new owners and hopefully convince them to join the Club.
Recent IT changes in the VOC have caused some brisk discussion and a lot of work for Phil Mahood, so I hesitate to mention that this year will also see some changes to the Spares Company IT systems. We are undertaking a complete re-vamp of the platforms that support both the webshop and the stock management. These will replace the existing Mamut system tha
auction buying
“Don’t forget the commission. You’ll have a percentage of the hammer price to pay (typically 10-15%), then VAT on that commission. If you pay £5000, you’ll likely be looking at £750 commission, then £150 VAT. So, a bike you bought for five grand will actually cost you £5900.
“Speak to the auctioneers first, to look at any paperwork they might have. It also gives you a chance to get to know them, and make them aware you’re interested in the bike.
“A seller can legally bid on their own bike, up to the reserve price, to get the bidding moving. Bonhams have a catalogue for each auction, and if the estimate price is £4000-£5000, the bidding will often start around £2000, but it’s a fair bet that the lower estimate is the reserve price.
“I’m always half looking for a bargain, and set a price that I won’t go over. Having said that, if I’ve absolutely set my heart on something (or someone else has asked me to bid for something they desperately want), then I’m going with the mindset of ‘I’m having that bike’, but that’s unusual in my case – normally I have a strict limit, then walk away. Prices can get out of control, especially when classic bikes are auctioned alongside classic cars – a car enthusiast might have decided they’d pay one and a half million for something, so when they see a bike for twenty five grand, it’s a bargain to them! I wasn’t looking for this Ducati, but picked it up at a good price of £1800. I don’t want to think about what I’ve spent on it since though…
“When I’m checking a bike over, I look for things that don’t look right:
Do the control cables run correctly? Does the inside of the tank look clean and rust-free? I always get down low behind the bike, to see if it’s wonky. It’s the obvious, badly bodged things I’m checking. If it doesn’t seem right, I’ll walk away.”
Online vs real-world auctions
If you have ever bought anything on eBay, you already know what an auction is and the real-world event is very similar to the online version. Motorcycle auctions are sales where a number of bikes are brought to a single location and then sold individually to the highest bidder.
While on eBay you are only bidding on a photograph and description of something, at an auction the vehicles are on display before the event.
Why not just sell the bikes through a traditional motorcycle dealership?
There are two answers to this question.
1) High-end auctions
High-end auctions – such as the ones run by leading European auctioneer Bonhams – generally specialise in premium or rare machines that often have a high price tag. That said, Bonhams also sells lower priced bikes and motoring memorabilia alongside these top-end machines. If you want to sell it, Bonhams will put it under the hammer. But where do the bikes come from?
Brough Superior project auction
1927 Brough Superior 981cc SS100 Alpine Grand Sport Project Sold for £276,420 Autumn Stafford 2015
Buyers and sellers
Many of the bikes sold by Bonhams are from private collections where the collector has either passed away or simply wants to cash in on their investment.
Other lots arrive from individuals wanting to sell their bike or bikes and some machines are sold by enthusiasts who love to restore bikes and then sell them at the auction to fund the next project – it’s a wide mix of both buyers and sellers.
When it comes to buying and selling, you get a wider range of vehicles at an auction than any traditional dealership could afford to stock and that’s a major part of their draw.
Bimota 970cc
1975 Bimota 970cc HB1 Sold for £59,000 Spring Stafford 2014
At a high-end auction
An average Bonhams motorcycle auction will contain around 250 bikes and attracts a well-informed and enthusiastic audience who know what a bike is worth and are prepared to pay some pretty impressive figures if necessary.
Recently, for example, a 1948 Vincent-HRD Black Shadow Series-B sold for £113,500 during a Bonhams auction, while a 1937 Brough Superior combination sold for £85,500.
1938 Brough Superior
1938 Brough Superior 982cc SS100 Project Sold for £179,120 Spring Stafford 2016
That said, a 1960 BSA Bantam also went for £1,150 in a Bonham’s auction last year (it was a bit rusty), so don’t be put off attending by the headline sales. The fact it costs £25 just to attend a Bonhams auction (the price of the catalogue, which doubles up as an entrance ticket for two people) also helps to ensure the audience are serious about their bikes and not tyre kickers.
Bonhams auctions aren’t frequent. The firm run two dedicated bike auctions in the UK every year in Stafford, however bikes are often sold alongside cars in various other overseas Bonhams auctions in locations such as Las Vegas and Paris.
2. Commercial auctions
Many companies – such as British Car Auctions (BCA) who are Europe’s biggest vehicle auction firm – are slightly less exclusive. BCA has 23 auction centres in the UK but mainly runs motorcycle auctions from its Peterborough site once a month.
BCA supersale 2016
BCA Supersale 2016: no shortage of bikes to choose from
Buyers and sellers
Where Bonhams gets its bikes from collectors and enthusiasts, BCA’s lots are generally from dealerships, ex-fleet vehicles (which can include ex-police or courier bikes) or repossessed through finance companies. An auction is a quick and easy way to get rid of motorcycles and, unlike dealerships, a finance company isn’t prepared to hold out to get the highest value possible, it just wants shot of them.
Often buyers are Europeans taking advantage of the weak pound
You do get private individuals selling through commercial auctions, but in general it is trade and that means modern motorcycles likes the ones you find in dealerships rather than classics.
If you are after a bargain modern bike, and are prepared to take a chance by buying with no warranty, a commercial auction is for you. It is for this reason that buyers tend to be in the motorcycle trade rather than enthusiastic collectors or private individuals and often buyers are from other European countries, taking advantage of the weak pound and exporting the bikes.
How an auction works – selling
Selling at a high-end auction
Ok, so you want to sell your classic bike through a Bonhams auction. After contacting the firm, Bonhams will ask for photographs of the bike, engine and frame numbers and details of how you came about the bike and how long you have owned it.
Research
They will then research the bike and come up with a suggested auction estimate, which is how much they feel it is going to make. This is basically a guide price and there is a good reason why they are often far lower than the bike will actually make: if it looks like a bargain, buyers will be encouraged to bid and once you start bidding…
Building the bike’s biography
If you are happy to continue, you also agree a reserve value, which is a minimum amount you will sell the vehicle for, and one of Bonhams’ dedicated catalogue specialists will construct an entry detailing the background on the bike to guide bidders as to why it’s worth buying.
This needs to include all the details that a buyer will be keen to know such as frame numbers, history, engine numbers, however they are not a guarantee that it runs and rides and that’s why prospective buyers are recommended to attend the sale.
1932 Brough Superior 800cc Model BS4
The ex-Hubert Chantrey, 1932 Brough Superior 800cc Model BS4 Project Sold for £339,280 Spring Stafford 2016
Fees
Bonhams can arrange for the bike to be transported to the auction (for an extra fee) and you can also increase your bike’s publicity by paying a bit more for a better place in the auction catalogue. If the bike sells, Bonhams will take a 10% seller’s commission (plus VAT) on the hammer price, but if it doesn’t sell there is no commission fee.
The entrance fee to the catalogue ranges from £30 to £120, which is all you pay if the bike fails to sell for its reserve value.
Selling at commercial auction
Private individuals can sell through a commercial auction and BCA has a simple online form to guide you through the process. There are boxes to tick involving the condition of the bike and its history and a ‘Conditions of Entry and Sale’ that state it has no major mechanical defects.
As with Bonhams, BCA will do a bit of the legwork for you and put the bike’s details up on the online form so potential buyers can view it beforehand.
1990 Honda RC30
Only 740 miles from new, 1990 Honda RC30 sold for $52,900 Las Vegas 2015
Fees
Fees vary from company to company, but, for example, BCA usually charge a flat fee rather than a percentage of the sale. For a single bike you can expect to pay in the region of £100 plus VAT.
It’s a sliding scale with multiple bikes helping reduce your costs. You can stick a reserve on the bike, but you will lose the fee if it doesn’t sell and, as with other auctions, the bike has to physically be at the auction.
On the day
Unlike Bonhams auctions, BCA will ride the bike across the sales room if it is mechanically sound and that means buyers get a chance to see and hear the vehicle in motion, so if you can get it running, it will help increase its value as no one likes to see a bike pushed across the block. You can also pay extra to get it valeted!
BCA employee
A BCA employee riding a lot before potential buyers
Don’t forget
If you are tempted to sell your bike through an auction, just remember, if it does sell there is no backing out as auction houses insist on having the vehicle’s logbook before the auction – when it’s gone it’s gone. However, if it doesn’t sell, that’s not necessarily the end of the story.
If the hammer falls and your bike hasn’t sold, don’t panic
If a bike fails to make its reserve, the auction house will often put the seller and the potential buyer (usually the last highest bidder) in contact at the event to try and get a compromise worked out. It’s in their interests to sell the vehicle as they get their commission, so if the hammer falls and your bike hasn’t sold, don’t panic, go and talk to the auction organisers.
How an auction works – buying
The hammer: legally binding
The first thing to understand about bidding in an auction is that it is ‘sold as seen’, ‘buyer beware’ and auctions give no guarantee about the vehicle so you can’t return it.
Also, when the hammer drops you have entered a legally binding agreement and that vehicle is yours and there is no backing out. It is for this reason that before you are given a bidding number you often need to provide evidence that you can afford the vehicle.
Inspect the lot
A key part of the auction is the fact that buyers can inspect the bike beforehand and while you aren’t allowed to attempt to start it, you can visually inspect it.
Canny buyers will also ask the employee riding the bike what it feels like
Bonhams will allow you to test things such as compression, which is a good guide to the motor’s health. At BCA auctions, vehicles that start are ridden into the showroom. This gives buyers a chance to hear it run and listen for worrying rattles. Canny buyers will also ask the employee riding the bike what it feels like…
Coventry Eagle 996cc Flying-Eight
1929 Coventry Eagle 996cc Flying-Eight Sold for £167,680 Spring Stafford 2016
To be or not to be (there)?
You don’t have to attend an auction in person and a lot of sales are done via the internet or telephone as auctions are often a global affair. But where’s the fun in that? You want to be in the heat of the battle and that means attending in person!
Bidding
Once in the auction, you simply show your bidding number to attract the attention of the auctioneer and keep showing it until the hammer drops or you decide that the price is too high and you drop out of the bidding.
This is the hard part! Being in an auction can be quite addictive and it is very easy to get swept up in the whole atmosphere and keep that bidding number raised. A lot of buyers set themselves fixed amounts they are prepared to go to – or bring a friend as a voice of reason!
Auction gavel
The highest bidder
Should you ‘win’ a bike, you then need to pay for it and work out how to get it home. Auction houses are often prepared to store vehicles after the auction (at the buyer’s expense) and can also arrange delivery, again for a fee.
You can pay via debit card, credit card or cash, however there is often a cash limit. Bank transfers are also acceptable, however they can take a while to clear and therefore you may incur storage fees.
Not all commercial auctions are open to the public, so you need to contact the auction house in advance to make sure you can attend.
Auction houses also charge a buyer’s fee or buyer’s premium, which is often in the region of 15%, so it is worth checking how much it is and taking this into account before you bid.
Brough motorbike
Why go to an auction?
There are two main reasons people go to an auction: to bag a bargain or to rubber-neck and see what is happening in the market.
High-end auctions
If you are genuinely interested in investing in a motorcycle or collection, high-end auctions are a great gauge as to where the market is going and what style of vehicle is worth either investing in or selling. A few bargains may well pop up, but not as many as you may imagine and there is an old adage ‘you make your money when you buy, not when you sell’ which sums the mood up perfectly.
You make your money when you buy, not when you sell
Some bikes – such as British classics like a Vincent or Brough – will ‘always’ go up in value. However, recent times have seen prices of the modern classics such as the Ducati 916 and original Honda FireBlade spiking. If you can predict a trend and buy before it kicks in, that’s where you make your money.
Indian 5hp 'Camelback'
c.1908 Indian 5hp ‘Camelback’ Twin Project Sold for £52,900 Spring Stafford 2016
Commercial auctions
These are a different prospect and buyers generally attend them in the hope of snapping up a cheap bike to then sell on. There is a risk attached as it is ‘sold as seen’, but more often than not the bikes sold are ex-fleet or finance vehicles and therefore relatively new. There are a few old bangers, which dealerships have accepted as trade-ins and just want to get rid of, but these stand out a mile and you know what you’re getting into.
The cool thing about any auction is that just as in a dealership, if you do buy a bike you can actually ride it home that day – provided it is road legal and insured – so bring your riding kit with you as well as your wallet!
Buying old motorbikes at auction – eight things to consider…
Old motorcycles get sold at specialist auctions for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s because it’s a grade-A ultra-rare classic or famous race bike that only comes up for sale rarely and the smart way for a seller to get the biggest audience and most money is in a prestige auction at one of the major auction houses. Other times it can be because a collector passes away, the family inherits the bike(s) and selling the lot in an auction is the most convenient, hassle-free and confident way to sell. And, of course, there are dozens of other reasons in between.
Buying a classic at auction isn’t necessarily the best way to buy a spotless, perfectly running bike with full-service history and fresh MoT that’s ready to roll. Bikes are sold-as-seen and although the auctioneers will try and get as much information as possible from the seller, sometimes there’s not a lot to go on.
And, in the weird world of classic bike buying, a non-running, slightly tatty bike can be worth more to collectors than a beautifully restored example. Ben Walker, head of motorcycles at Bonhams says, “Some collectors enjoy the process of fettling, others have their preferred specialist restorers that they like to use and for some, originality and patina add extra value. Plus, as strange as it seems, not all collectors are buying their bikes to ride.”
BikeSocial asked James Robinson, Editor of The Classic Motorcycle magazine and serial old-motorcycle collector for his advice for first-time auction buyers.
Set a price limit and stick to it
“Auction fever affects us all,” says James. “A friend of mine always writes three different figures; what she’d ‘like’ something to cost, what she’s prepared to bid, and what she could afford if it comes to it. But she rarely – if ever – strays beyond the second figure.”
When setting your own figures make sure you’ve allowed for the auctioneers' fees, VAT (if applicable) and the costs of transporting the bike home. If you’re buying a historic race bike for a six-figure sum, this is a lot of money. But even buying a run-of-the-mill 1960s British classic, you can easily end up paying more than it would have cost you from your local classic dealer.
Be realistic in your classic bike auction valuation
Before you enter the sale room, you should have a good idea of what the bike is worth. Looking at previous sale results and thinking ‘I’d have bought it for that’ is pointless. You wouldn’t and couldn’t have, because someone else bid that. So you’d have had to bid at least one more bid, and who knows where that would have taken you? Equally, don’t assume the catalogue guide price is the reserve. It could be, but most auction houses put a guide price at the very bottom end of expectations because they want to encourage as many potential buyers as possible into the auction and to bid on the item.
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This 1974 Norton Commando was previously owned by legendary rock star Keith Emerson. The paperwork proves it and added a significant amount to the price paid
Provenance is king at classic bike auctions
The oldest joke in classic bike trading is ‘BSA only made five of these and I’ve got all six of them in my garage.’ Many old bikes have had many of their parts replaced over the years. Sometimes it’s wear and tear, others because motorcyclists like to modify and, in the case of old race bikes because they get crashed, blown-up and rebuilt so often. If all six frames from a famous racer’s GP bike get restored and rebuilt using sets of crankcases also from the same team in the same season and are then furnished with restored bodywork from other bikes, it doesn’t take long before six separate people are claiming to own the championship winning bike from that particular season.
If you’re paying top-dollar for a unique and prized race bike, you need to be sure it’s actually unique and original. The best auction houses do their homework and only claim what they can prove. If the proof doesn’t exist (‘You’ll be surprised how often a collector passes away without the family being aware of the importance of paperwork relating to valuable bikes’ says Ben of Bonhams), the value of a bike can be seriously impacted.
Back in the real world of road bikes, if you are new to classic bikes, you’ll be interested to hear that not all bikes wear their original registration number. The machine might have been imported much later from other countries (huge numbers of British classics have been re-imported from the USA for example) and given an age-related reg-number. Original registration numbers and matching, original engine and frame numbers have long been prized, but on some bikes, things like gearbox numbers (many older bikes have separate gearboxes), for example, are considered too.
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At a big auction like the Bonhams Stafford Show sale, the bikes are lined up and other parts of the lot are usually viewed separately
Check what else is included in the lot
There may well be more bits and pieces along with the bike. Often, a motorcycle – in particular, an old motorcycle from a collection – will have spares and accessories with it. Or, even better, the original fitment parts that were taken off when the owner modified it. These parts are all worth money and, even the period modified parts you might swap back with the originals will be hard to find now. In the classic world (especially the older veteran and vintage bikes) pretty much everything is worth money.
Ben Walker from Bonhams says that when he goes to value a bike or a collection, he always asks what else there is and, if the sale is part of a inheritance sale, he asks if he can look around the garage or the office if the deceased had one. This is often where you find the treasure trove of spare parts, paperwork, manuals and more, which are all worth money to the seller while increasing the desirability to buyers.
Act quickly when the auction is over
Be aware that sale rooms attract light-fingered opportunists. At a recent major classic bike auction a Vincent lost its carburettor top, while one buyer bought a gearbox and a couple of sprockets, to find that, on collection, one of the sprockets had ‘disappeared.’ Collect your purchases as quickly as you can.
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One of these men is a leading UK classic bike dealer, the other is a mechanic. In the wild, they can be hard to tell apart. Both are lovely people, but in an auction, they are your rivals.
Know who you are bidding against
If you are bidding against a dealer, you will always (well, nearly always) win, as he or she is looking at paying a figure where there’s still a profit margin to be had. Given that auction prices reflect the perceived value of the bike in the room, plus the auctioneers' fees, plus VAT, the hammer price needs to be pretty low for a dealer to be interested (unless it’s a particularly collectible machine and the dealer already has a client waiting for it).
So, if you want the bike for yourself, a dealer can usually be outbid. How do you recognise a dealer? Sometimes it’s obvious – they’ll be wearing branded clothing or something similar. If not, then you can get a good idea of the people in the room by watching the auction from the back of the room. Private buyers and collectors will mostly be bidding on one or maybe two items, but dealers are likely to be bidding on multiple lots. Dealers will generally back away when the price reaches a certain level so, anyone bidding on lots of items, but winning few is likely to be in the trade.
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Spotting the rusty tank is easy, but six-gummed-up CV carbs and 45 years of multiple owner ‘improvements’ take a bit more investigation. Give yourself time and set your valuation accordingly.
Check the bike carefully and factor-in the additional costs
Auction bikes are sold-as-seen. At classic auctions it’s unlikely you’ll see them running or being ridden into the hall. The catalogue will give an indication of condition, but it’s up to you to check. Buying a relatively common bike at a classic auction is a good way of spending too much money on a bike needing too much unseen work. Taking a mate along to double-check is a very good idea, as is ticking items off a checklist.
A damaged or badly rusted petrol tank may cost a fortune to refinish – a machine with good paintwork can represent a bargain as even if other work is needed. A good paint job is a big expense saved.
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Forget ‘Bargain Hunt', the big classic bike auctions are very civilised with many overseas bidders on the phone or online.
Get to know the auction houses and the people who work there
The auction house staff will be around before the auction to answer questions. Say hello, be friendly, take the opportunity to make use of their expertise. It’s their job to get the best price for each bike but also to ensure all potential buyers get a chance. Once you’re a familiar and trusted face, then often you’ll be looked for in the crowd, and if there’s two of you trying to place the same bid at the same time, the final nod might come your way.
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