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Tech. Advice: Series 'B' / 'C' 500cc/1000cc Bikes
Alton generator
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<blockquote data-quote="oexing" data-source="post: 108442" data-attributes="member: 1493"><p>A car alternator is certainly great for those who really need a lot of power for whatever to run. But then for classic looks it is just ab-so-lu-tely no way I´d be willing to throw one onto my bikes - same as for elephant breathers and various contraptions of luggage carriers, ignition coils at the cylinder base - and so on. At my age I am no longer keen on doing long motorbike travelling and if so, instead of ruining the style of a Vincent to turn it into somewhat suitable for travelling I´d rather get me a used BMW twin - or Jap - with all that is required in one package and you are ready to go, no compromises. If you don´t care about horrible looks so you can opt for a BMW or Jap just as well. Don´t see the point why to spoil a Vincent in lots of aspects just to go travelling.</p><p> Anyway, putting an alternator at the mag place has a few serious flaws: You´d have to have a gearbox in there to boost the output due to only half speed there. That means the drive inflicts the alternator with high loads - some shock loads too - at same ration as you up the speed in there. Sure, there is no ESA to blame , but the gearbox in the alternator needs extra lubrication, produces noise and with a ratio of, say, 1:3 , it is loaded with threefold acceleration when blipping the throttle. The load from inertia of the rotor is in consequence threefold as well and so all gears in the timing side get a high additional load - which I would not want to have.</p><p> Instead of a gear drive in the alternator at the mag position one may find a big three phase motor , bigger diameter than at the old Miller place possible. 90 mm o.d. is about max there I guess, as I will put that size of car magneto there - just. So yes, a starter at the old dyno place may be an option then, haven´t seen one yet.</p><p> Speaking for myself, my numbers I have found from REAL load tests with these permanent magnet motors , no gears, look great for me and I will never need more power from them so no need to opt for car alternators. When seeing 14 V at 2100 rpm at the crank with a 100 W quartz bulb connected that is good for me and for a lot more Vincenteers I believe. There seem to be a few reasons why the car type alternators did not catch on a lot more.</p><p> To this day I have not seen wattage numbers of non-geared Altons at various speeds. With the B-series engines and cast-in dyno cradles Alton is limited to a small diameter motor due to the 1/2 " offset of drive shaft. I did a little machining for 68 mm motors, 70 mm is about max for the old cases. So my guess, these 68 mm China motors will supply more power than the non-geared Altons - at a fraction of costs. You can have 5 to 10 motors for one Alton, regulator included - great for those who love messing around at the lathe or mill.</p><p> ESA drama aside, a low mass of the rotor is a bonus and desirable at the old Miller dyno place, all drama in the primary is really the consequence of the ESA, so the triplex chain induces shock loads into the rotor which adds to the harsh behaviour of this chain drive. My pictures below show internals of the old Miller dyno and brush and brushless type China motors. The Miller has more than one kilogram more weight than the motors. An even bigger brushless is on order, will take another three weeks to arrive here I think. So watch this space for more details.</p><p></p><p> Vic</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]28039[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]28040[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]28041[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="oexing, post: 108442, member: 1493"] A car alternator is certainly great for those who really need a lot of power for whatever to run. But then for classic looks it is just ab-so-lu-tely no way I´d be willing to throw one onto my bikes - same as for elephant breathers and various contraptions of luggage carriers, ignition coils at the cylinder base - and so on. At my age I am no longer keen on doing long motorbike travelling and if so, instead of ruining the style of a Vincent to turn it into somewhat suitable for travelling I´d rather get me a used BMW twin - or Jap - with all that is required in one package and you are ready to go, no compromises. If you don´t care about horrible looks so you can opt for a BMW or Jap just as well. Don´t see the point why to spoil a Vincent in lots of aspects just to go travelling. Anyway, putting an alternator at the mag place has a few serious flaws: You´d have to have a gearbox in there to boost the output due to only half speed there. That means the drive inflicts the alternator with high loads - some shock loads too - at same ration as you up the speed in there. Sure, there is no ESA to blame , but the gearbox in the alternator needs extra lubrication, produces noise and with a ratio of, say, 1:3 , it is loaded with threefold acceleration when blipping the throttle. The load from inertia of the rotor is in consequence threefold as well and so all gears in the timing side get a high additional load - which I would not want to have. Instead of a gear drive in the alternator at the mag position one may find a big three phase motor , bigger diameter than at the old Miller place possible. 90 mm o.d. is about max there I guess, as I will put that size of car magneto there - just. So yes, a starter at the old dyno place may be an option then, haven´t seen one yet. Speaking for myself, my numbers I have found from REAL load tests with these permanent magnet motors , no gears, look great for me and I will never need more power from them so no need to opt for car alternators. When seeing 14 V at 2100 rpm at the crank with a 100 W quartz bulb connected that is good for me and for a lot more Vincenteers I believe. There seem to be a few reasons why the car type alternators did not catch on a lot more. To this day I have not seen wattage numbers of non-geared Altons at various speeds. With the B-series engines and cast-in dyno cradles Alton is limited to a small diameter motor due to the 1/2 " offset of drive shaft. I did a little machining for 68 mm motors, 70 mm is about max for the old cases. So my guess, these 68 mm China motors will supply more power than the non-geared Altons - at a fraction of costs. You can have 5 to 10 motors for one Alton, regulator included - great for those who love messing around at the lathe or mill. ESA drama aside, a low mass of the rotor is a bonus and desirable at the old Miller dyno place, all drama in the primary is really the consequence of the ESA, so the triplex chain induces shock loads into the rotor which adds to the harsh behaviour of this chain drive. My pictures below show internals of the old Miller dyno and brush and brushless type China motors. The Miller has more than one kilogram more weight than the motors. An even bigger brushless is on order, will take another three weeks to arrive here I think. So watch this space for more details. Vic [ATTACH type="full" alt="P1060999.JPG"]28039[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="P1070002.JPG"]28040[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="P1070005.JPG"]28041[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
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Tech. Advice: Series 'B' / 'C' 500cc/1000cc Bikes
Alton generator
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