ET164 with Alton - V3 Clutch Drag.

Oldhaven

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
This should be quick. When fitting an Alton is it necessary to have the ET164 oil shield in the chaincase, or is it no longer necessary? The instructions from Alton do not mention it, only to use the oil thrower.

Another quick note is that when using the Cometic chaincase gasket, it has to be trimmed back in the dynamo access areas to allow the dynamo sprocket to be installed.

Ron
 

Oldhaven

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VOC Member
Went for a 10 mile ride today, to check out the rebuild and tuning. The bike ran very well and is a 1-2 kick starter when warm with the Norton dual points. It starts best with no flooding tickling and no throttle. It idles nicely, but I've got some more tuning to do with the 928 Amals, and I am getting a little oil film in the exhaust pipe tip, but not troublingly so. 106 needle jet, 180 main, needle in lowest notch, ~1 1/4 turns on air screw, modified Norton style stepped spray tubes, still has the pilot jets the Amals came with, probably 17's. The Thornton "B" suspension front and rear with Justin's springs and boxes is a revelation compared my memories of the semi stock girdraulic setup, with Pettefords and a fully suspended seat, that I had on my '52 C Touring Rapide. Very smooth and comfortable, almost un-Vincent like over humps and bumps. The Speet 2LS front brakes are nice, controllable, and firm too, and I was initially careful as I was warned they they might be "too fierce", but not so, though I have not done a panic stop yet. I am getting some drag from the V3 clutch, despite putting the club kickstart case adjuster mod in and adjusting all the slop out. No trouble getting into first, but neutral is elusive or impossible and I have to keep the front brake on when idling in first with the clutch lever in trying to find neutral due to drag. I will call Steve Hamel about this since the unit is a 2002 version and not used until now. (I wonder if Paul Goff got his sorted.) I think some changes have been made in plates or clutch stack over the years that help with drag and lift.

(Knock on wood, no oil leaks yet, and yes it does have oil in it, 5w-40 even)

The reason for putting this first ride report here is that the biggest problem I had was a loss of charging from the Alton, which had been doing fine for the first few miles. Returning home I opened up the dynamo cover, on the principal that troubleshooting starts with obvious things first. Lo and behold, the nylon pinon was completely adrift and the center had melted and broken out of it. Quite a sight! The question I asked last August was about whether to use a ET164 ring with the Alton may be a case of perhaps not. Truthfully I still don't know if that is typical, but I put one in. I appears that what had happened was that the oil thrower had too little clearance on it and the heat from it rubbing metal on metal caused the nylon pinion to get too hot, fracture, and go south. I thought I had enough clearance on the thrower when I put the Alton against its ring of mastic , but apparently not. (I have about 3/16" clearance now between the Alton face and the crankcase spigot. This is probably too much. What do others have?) I thought I had it right because I lined up the sprocket teeth with the center chain row, but next time the clearance at the crankcase gets priority.

By the way, I am amazed at how strong the magnets on the first generation Alton are. It takes quite a bit turn the thing by the poles. I am sure this contributed to the failure when the sprocket got compromised by heat. I bought this first generation single phase alternator way back before the 3 phase problem, and this was its first use. (Podtronics regulated) It is probably just like the one Bruce Metcalf is still using from new.

Despite the trouble today, and my grinch like comments a week or so ago, Christmas did arrive today. If nothing else major pops up, I think the home stretch is here.

Ron
 

usefulidiot

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
In regards to the multiplate clutch drag...i have the same issue with the exact same setup including the adjuster. I have adjusted it to the point where neutral is easy to find while rolling, but impossible when stopped. One thing i had to do was a double gasket on the clutch cover as the adjuster was fouling the cover preventing full lift.
 

usefulidiot

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Non-VOC Member
prior to the double gasket and readjusting neutral was almost impossible to find while the bike was running either rolling or stopped
 

vibrac

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VOC Member
One thing i had to do was a double gasket on the clutch cover as the adjuster was fouling the cover preventing full lift.
Us old racer guys used to put a ring of small washers under the cover screws twixt cover and case apart from clearance it cooled the innards a bit-never worried me in the rain
 

Goffy998

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Regarding the V3 clutch, the latest alteration was to use Motul 10/30 transmission oil. This was recommended here, & gave another minor improvement. The VOC spares co. are advertising a longer G91 & different adjuster to suit which supposedly gives more lift, I'll try this next.
I can always select neutral, stationary or not but it always 'goes in with a bang'
Paul Goff
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Hello Ron, Glad to hear you have a goer, I would not trust a Nylon pinion on a standard setup, I have seen how hard it is to turn the early Alton, So why not use the standard steel pinion. Cheers Bill.
 

Oldhaven

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Hi Bill, the nylon pinion was developed for the early Alton because the standard steel one causes a lot of wear on the center of the triplex chain for just the reason you mention, the shock loading of the rollers and the sprocket teeth as the Alton goes past the magnets. I can probably get by with steel for a while until I can get a new nylon one. I also think I am going to take out the ET 164, since it probably doesn't do much in this application anyway, and the Alton is sealed. this should give me the clearance I need. I have just sent an email to Paul Hamon at Alton's about this to get his advice.

Ron
 

Oldhaven

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The VOC spares co. are advertising a longer G91 & different adjuster to suit which supposedly gives more lift, I'll try this next.
Paul Goff


I just got my June MPH and notice the "longer" G91/1 advertised by VOC Spares. How exactly is is different, when working in conjunction with ET27/2, which I have in the bike already, using the original old type lever? The additional material must be just a bit longer at the contact point which was moved down with ET27/2. Also, if my eyes are right, it looks a bit more sturdy, and that might help with flexing causing travel loss. A little bit more lift is probably good enough. Anyone in on the design that can comment? BTW, I have a deep VOC repro B clutch cover that should be fine with lift. It was considerably deeper than the original, requiring some new footrest spacers. Some one was thinking, I guess.

(Probably should change the thread or title to reflect the broad range of subjects)
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
the longer G91/1 simply goes in backwards inside to outside thus improving the leverage ratio. As for the early Alton and steel sprocket I saw the heap of half rollers in my primary case after the 1999 IOM lap. I should have known better we always removed the dynamo sprocket when production racing in fact this is a 'now it can be told tale'
I and a well known VOC member (anon) when we were production racing hollowed out our dynamo bodies and put a small bulb in foam inside and ran a wire to ammeter and a horn button to near the twist grip. Then in scrutineering we would start the engine,and as we turned the throttle, surreptitiously press the horn button , the hidden bulb would light and the ammeter deflected to "charge":rolleyes:. Well all the other bikes we were racing against were at least 10 years younger than us and in fact later BMCRC introduced a production age limit of 10 years , I suppose the 'old' Vincents passing the latest 1965 machines down the Snetterton straight was becoming embarrassing:)
 
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