Easily said...that's another $1,000 US...
E: Engine Loose Jet Block In 289 & More Problems With My Twin
- Thread starter CarlHungness
- Start date
I´d think the only condition when a sloppy fit of the jet block matters is at idle speed and for kickstarts. So unless you do trick machining on components I´d go for LOW strength Loctite 221 , low viscosity too. You do the bottom nut up for fixing the jet block onto the carb body, with fibre seals as required. Only then you soak a little bit into the gap/sloppy fit on the jet block bottom at the inlet valve / pilot jet side. So then it will prevent small air leaks weakening the idle mixture. No troubles from this like blocking jets or drillings as Loctites can only do a reaction in small gaps - anaerobic - and will "freeze" in the gap before reaching down to drillings . Don´t apply a lot of the stuff as you just want the gap sealed at the inlet side and no brute force some time later when knocking out the jet block.
Low strength Loctites are recommended a lot on motorbikes for lots of uses, fuel taps threads too. You do not need much of "normal" stregth types on most fasteners, low strength is allright in most places. Funny to see that many appear to have more faith in ridiculous nylocs - and use them many times - a no-no really.
Still I believe the "traditional" Vincent valve lifter drill is not helpful in the kickstart action. You say you let the lever drop when the kicker has gone to bottom stroke. That seems to me way too late for having any useful mixture sucked into the next firing cylinder that wants to draw in mixture about same time you have that cylinder´s ex valve lifted. But with lifted ex valve there is no good suction in next firing cylinder !!
I do believe you really want the previous cylinder´s ex valve just lifted to help over that firing TDC and at once lifter dropped again past TDC !! So in ths situation you gain nothing from having the lifter on down the full kicker stroke, as no compression is to be expected all that way down, just messing up suction of next pot .
And I do not believe you do not get full swing from the kicker for next pot. Please do that test I suggested earlier: Feel for compression by kicker and just stand on the lever till it just passes slowly the TDC by slow air leaks. That would then be your crankshaft position for real kicking the thing. So for diagnosis let the lever come up to top position and then go on down with the lever and feel for NEXT compression - no lifter applied ! I bet it will be felt before the lever hits its bottom stop. So this would prove that full swing is safely had by this drill. Yes, due to a v-twin there is a variation when next compression is due but even when checking at the wider crankshaft situation I think you cannot possibly miss the "Full swing" by kickstart lever.
All that exercise and success of starting the beast is depending a lot of the carb slide settings when kicking. So do make sure the slides are actally only lifted about one millimeter or imperial size from idle when kicking - no twist grip action allowed at all in this motion !!!
As soon as you f*** up the slide position on the twist grip the pilot sytem will get uneffective and only pure air will be drawn in and no working mixture is had and no engine start ! People can be watched working the twist grip while kicking but no reliable start will be possible from this unless you almost drown the engine by thoroughly flooding the engine by tickler and that pure air from lifted slides can produce a working mixture hopefully - baaaad practise !
Vic
Low strength Loctites are recommended a lot on motorbikes for lots of uses, fuel taps threads too. You do not need much of "normal" stregth types on most fasteners, low strength is allright in most places. Funny to see that many appear to have more faith in ridiculous nylocs - and use them many times - a no-no really.
Still I believe the "traditional" Vincent valve lifter drill is not helpful in the kickstart action. You say you let the lever drop when the kicker has gone to bottom stroke. That seems to me way too late for having any useful mixture sucked into the next firing cylinder that wants to draw in mixture about same time you have that cylinder´s ex valve lifted. But with lifted ex valve there is no good suction in next firing cylinder !!
I do believe you really want the previous cylinder´s ex valve just lifted to help over that firing TDC and at once lifter dropped again past TDC !! So in ths situation you gain nothing from having the lifter on down the full kicker stroke, as no compression is to be expected all that way down, just messing up suction of next pot .
And I do not believe you do not get full swing from the kicker for next pot. Please do that test I suggested earlier: Feel for compression by kicker and just stand on the lever till it just passes slowly the TDC by slow air leaks. That would then be your crankshaft position for real kicking the thing. So for diagnosis let the lever come up to top position and then go on down with the lever and feel for NEXT compression - no lifter applied ! I bet it will be felt before the lever hits its bottom stop. So this would prove that full swing is safely had by this drill. Yes, due to a v-twin there is a variation when next compression is due but even when checking at the wider crankshaft situation I think you cannot possibly miss the "Full swing" by kickstart lever.
All that exercise and success of starting the beast is depending a lot of the carb slide settings when kicking. So do make sure the slides are actally only lifted about one millimeter or imperial size from idle when kicking - no twist grip action allowed at all in this motion !!!
As soon as you f*** up the slide position on the twist grip the pilot sytem will get uneffective and only pure air will be drawn in and no working mixture is had and no engine start ! People can be watched working the twist grip while kicking but no reliable start will be possible from this unless you almost drown the engine by thoroughly flooding the engine by tickler and that pure air from lifted slides can produce a working mixture hopefully - baaaad practise !
Vic
There was a few second hand 229/289 carbs on uk ebay a couple of weeks ago........they do come up, unless you can find one from members on here who have stashes of Vin parts they are never going to use in a million years. It sounds like a replacement body and jet block assembly is what you need. The starting technique is debatable.......but one thing is for sure......Once you kick a twin over 6 or more times, you rapidly find the elastic limit of your right leg, lungs or both.........
One cannot buy the body and jet block separately, you have to buy the whole carb. They do sell everything
separately, except the body and the jet block. I did get an e mail back from B-TH that said one of my
cylinders was receiving enough juice, but not the other. Then they said they'd talk to Peter Nugent who was
to come in today, but another e mail from B-TH said it probably wouldn't be worth it to tear into the
unit and try to fix it. I don't think they spoke with Peter as he wasn't quoted. Thus, my initial problem
was that the old B-TH had gone duff. I did get the bike started with it weeks back, and it was rough
as can be. Then I installed the Lucas, and it ran great for 60 seconds and died. Then had the Lucas rebuilt,
got it running and starting well, and poof!, it went pear-shaped after I accelerated to 70 and tried to do
so again, and it seemed as though it just wouldn't take fuel, wouldn't run over 45. Trailered it home and could
not restart...so I'll buy a new B-TH. This is really getting expensive.
Vic, I'm either thicker than a US Nickel, or so frustrated at my starting procedure (now) that I have to have you
lead me like a three year old again. You state
I really can't get the plot over TDC just by standing on the lever, it'd take forever. Second, getting over one cylinder, gently using the decomp, is easy enough...as I just bump it and can feel TDC. Thus are you saying, "Just get it over ANY TDC, then kick it?" It's been my recent experience that if I can feel the long duration, then the short, and just go over the short stroke, I'm getting a pretty good full swing in. Trouble was, I watched Glenn Bewley, at 275 lbs. pull in the decomp, sort of shake his right leg onto the kicker, and the plot started, time and again. At 165 lbs I can't enact the same procedure. Thus I've gotten ON a compression, kicked and released simultaneously with lousy varying results. Sometimes I get a full swing in, others I'm not rotating the plot. Seems to me that if there is a 410 degree swing available after the front goes on TDC that's what a person wants. So again, are you saying to just get it over ANY TDC and kicking it? I'd rather not use the decomp to start it as timing seems too critical.
Now, my mass is about same like you, Carl, but am 10 years younger admittedly - but no sports type ever been. I did start a Vincent short time ago unexpectedly when I only wanted to feel the compression. That was the only time ever I did this so far , my bikes will take another year possibly to get them operative. So any ideas about starting these beasts are not from experience on Vincents but from other h.c. singles or BMWs.
There were some reports from you about letting go the valve lifter when the kickstart lever had reached bottom of swing - which I think is way too late as it might lead to a weak filling of next pot to fire. So yes, I´d have ANY compressing cylinder helped JUST past TDC by lifter and then release lifter and kick the thing with max force. By positioning the crank just past TDC in all your time slowly there will be no need for critical reaction in releasing the lifter while you heave onto the kickstart lever. I have never watched this lifter-kicker choreography on Vincents done on other bikes, Velocettes included.
I am not clear about your meaning of full swing - helping the piston over next compression TDC successfully ? And when the plot not rotating - your leg blocked at next comp. TDC due to weak kicking ? You don´t mean blocked kickstart quadrant I guess ?
Looking at big BMWs with 1000 cc, they got no lifter at all, no BMW ever had. And 360 degrees between each TDC all the time certainly, nothing to choose there. My R 69S with 734 cc feels more difficult to kick now at my age of 70 years . I used to position the pistons onto compression BTDC and then kicked at all force - Bosch magneto ignition on these as well! I will convert to big singles choreography now by slowly easing just over TDC and only then give it a decent kick. So I won´t feel all that compression like in my younger years.
Same procedure should do on Vincents, easing JUST over any TDC by lifter is allright, but only JUST. Don´t do more as you´d lose out on getting the crank up to speed before it hits next compression.
Well, I hope you get the idea, easier done than worded. Maybe do some training kicks without wanting to start the engine just for feeling the crank in its states. Ahhhm, you did not fill it with SAE 50 oil ? Or troubles of controlling your twist grip hand when kicking ? In the link below you see the slide stop screw T-bar that is used for starting: Turn in to its stop raises the slide for kicking - once warm enough turn out to rear stop for perfect idle that you have set previously on the T-bar. Just for showing the idea about minimal slide open for kicking . . . .
Vic
Amal T-bar
There were some reports from you about letting go the valve lifter when the kickstart lever had reached bottom of swing - which I think is way too late as it might lead to a weak filling of next pot to fire. So yes, I´d have ANY compressing cylinder helped JUST past TDC by lifter and then release lifter and kick the thing with max force. By positioning the crank just past TDC in all your time slowly there will be no need for critical reaction in releasing the lifter while you heave onto the kickstart lever. I have never watched this lifter-kicker choreography on Vincents done on other bikes, Velocettes included.
I am not clear about your meaning of full swing - helping the piston over next compression TDC successfully ? And when the plot not rotating - your leg blocked at next comp. TDC due to weak kicking ? You don´t mean blocked kickstart quadrant I guess ?
Looking at big BMWs with 1000 cc, they got no lifter at all, no BMW ever had. And 360 degrees between each TDC all the time certainly, nothing to choose there. My R 69S with 734 cc feels more difficult to kick now at my age of 70 years . I used to position the pistons onto compression BTDC and then kicked at all force - Bosch magneto ignition on these as well! I will convert to big singles choreography now by slowly easing just over TDC and only then give it a decent kick. So I won´t feel all that compression like in my younger years.
Same procedure should do on Vincents, easing JUST over any TDC by lifter is allright, but only JUST. Don´t do more as you´d lose out on getting the crank up to speed before it hits next compression.
Well, I hope you get the idea, easier done than worded. Maybe do some training kicks without wanting to start the engine just for feeling the crank in its states. Ahhhm, you did not fill it with SAE 50 oil ? Or troubles of controlling your twist grip hand when kicking ? In the link below you see the slide stop screw T-bar that is used for starting: Turn in to its stop raises the slide for kicking - once warm enough turn out to rear stop for perfect idle that you have set previously on the T-bar. Just for showing the idea about minimal slide open for kicking . . . .
Vic
Amal T-bar
I haven't had a pizza in years, but have had a couple of slices here and there. I DO need about tenSounds like you need to eat more to get more mass behind your kick. Pizza works for me, unfortunately.
pounds of muscle, but I can out-walk most any 40 year old and my legs are strong as a football
player, buy my arms look like Olive Oyl.
As a long-time reader/student of MPH I have digested and hiccuped the Long Stroke/Short Stroke starting method on the Vincent, and DO believe I can find the Short Stroke virtually every time, and if I am correct, THAT is the stroke which will give one 410 degrees of Swing to the next firing event. Thus, I surely (now) understand what you're saying about, get it OVER...J-U-S-T any TDC and boot it. I started the damn thing 5 days in a row from cold last week, with varying results. When warm it's a piece of cake. THUS, I am REALLY worried about just why in the hell I could NOT re-start the thing on the road and had to trailer it home!! I just replaced the needles, which did NOT need replacing, the old ones mic'd out precisely the same as the new ones. So I still have NO idea why it wouldn't take fuel, why it wouldn't accelerate, and why it would not re-start. I am buying a new B-TH which will take a while to get here.