Scams Selling Your Vincent Beware

[Speedtwin]

I recently advertised one of my Comets for sale.
On reputable sites.

I received an email from a potential buyer wanting to buy the bike.
Asked all the right questions.
Seemed genuine enough.

Anyway long story short he asked me to take the bike down off the sales sites and he would pay 500 quid over the asking price.
He then sent me a cheque for some 5 grand more than the agreed bonus sale price.
The cheque was from the Citigroup, from a german account.

Alarm bell ringing.......

Made some enquiries with local law enforcement and was told some facts I was not aware off.
Cheques can be recalled at any time after cashing them no time limit.
The vendor, me would be responsible to refund the monies.
Say was a result of criminal asset recovery...

A common scam at the moment in the classic car and bike scene is someone buys pays by cheque an amount over the sale price I was told.
This then can go two ways.
Way one:
Cheques clears the buyer asks for the vendor to ship the bike and pay the shipping cost from the overpayment and refund difference maybe cash in bike.
The buyer sends a link to pay the shipper and then the vendor gets fleeced false link.
They have even seen bikes transported and disappear in transit....
Way Two:
The vendor cashes the cheque has money in the bank, bike is sent via the buyers shipper.
Some time later up to two years has been noted cheque is recalled bike has disappeared.
Vendor is responsible for the return of the cash.


Seems money laundering is taking place using sellers of classics to clean cash and in some cases lose their vehicles and their money.
If the money is found to be dirty the seller is ultimately responsible to pay it back to the fuzz.

Glad I did my homework all very plausible had no idea until cheque landed with the overpayment of nearly 5k on it.
Cheque was dead on according to my bank, not stolen or forged.

So cheques are not the way anymore the local fuzz also explained the ins and outs of bank transfers and over payments also common way to clean dirty money.
In future I will be trading my bikes for coconuts.
Al

 

[Gary Gittleson]

Never heard of this. In the US, checks can't be recalled unless some sort of fraud on the part of the payee has been proven. There is a short period of a few days during which the check needs to clear. Depending on the type of check (government, "cashier", "certified", personal etc.) that can be from one to maybe 4 or 5 days. After that, it can't be reversed. The laws here are different, I suppose.

The common scam with checks (cheques) known here is similar but different. A "buyer" sends a check for more than the agreed-upon amount. The seller deposits or cashes the check and sends the item along with a refund for the "over payment" . A few days later, the seller's account is debited the check's amount because the check bounced or is fraudulent. The seller is then also charged a "service fee" by the bank. So the "seller" is out the amount of the check, plus the "over payment", plus the fee. But still, this won't happen two years later from what I know. In fact, I sort of doubt it happens in any advanced country. If it did, how could normal business proceed? No one would ever trust checks.

 

[LoneStar]

Yes, in the US the deciding factor is the check clearing the originating bank. It can clear yours, and show as a deposit, but that will be reversed if it reaches the originating bank and is found to be fake or lacking funds.

I offered a bike for sale, and someone wanted to buy it with a "bank check". I told him fine, but any check would require 10 business days to clear before the bike would be released. Never heard from him again.

 

[Monkeypants]

I bought a BSA Super Rocket from a Harley dealer Galveston Texas. It took a full month for my cheque to clear even though it was issued by the BNY Mellon Bank. BnY Mellon Bank is the world's largest custodian bank with 50 trillion in assets.
The seller wouldn't ship until the cheque cleared, which is understandable. I was starting to wonder if I was being scammed by the seller.
In the end, all worked out fine and the bike is better than advertised.
I have had very good luck with long distance purchases. I can see how it could easily go awry, or turn out to be a complete scam.

Glen

 

[LoneStar]

Interesting - in the US, checks normally clear in a few business days, but it seems there are outliers. Probably it's wise to do what the seller did, and verify directly with the issuing bank that the check has cleared.

 

[vibrac]

Just ask the search engine can cheques be recalled after they are cashed....

 

[LoneStar]

I'll leave it to UK residents to write the definitive answer - but from a quick search, it looks like the same process as in the US: the recipient can deposit the check to his bank, and be credited the amount - but that can be reversed if the bank which originated the check refuses to honor it. On the other hand, once the originating bank clears it, there is no way to reverse the payment (apart from a lawsuit).

 

[TouringGodet]

Also, in the US, when depositing a check, many banks will only make a portion of the funds available to you, until the check clears the originating bank.

 

[Speedtwin]

The other factor in play is what is called proceeds of crime which I gather is european and still applies in the UK.

Cheque has cleared, bike is gone to new home at the (drug dealer for instances bike collection), money resides in the account of the seller.
Anytime after, no time limit, if the money used to buy your pride and joy is found to have originated from the proceeds of crime the funds will be taken back by the authorities, removed from the innocent sellers account.
If the money is not there, then it gets complicated.

The responsibility is on the vendor to ensure the money received is traceable, auditable and clean.
So when banks take a month to clear a cheque they are only covering their own back not yours.

Every wondered why your bank will not take large amounts of cash or allow you to withdraw large amounts?
They are all rascals.
Al

 

[Speedtwin]

This scam discussed above is primarily based on the use of cheques in a fraudulent way, to either cleanse funds or fraudulently scam the vendor, this makes the retrieval of monies at any time post transaction possible.

A clean cheque of known origin can not be recalled after clearance in the UK , once cashed the contract being good is complete, unless there has been some dodgy goings on.

A classic is for the buyer to say, paid you to much can you pay back difference to this account, western union or alike or even to send a false link to a false shipper which in turn needs financial details and as if by magic your account is cleared.