Wheel Building

[Cyborg]

On the last set of wheels that I did, the heads on some of the stainless spokes had to be ground to clear their neighbour. I have another set of wheels to do and I’m wondering what the current story is with spokes. Are there spokes available that don’t need to be ground?
Second question is…. I hear of folks installing the spokes after the hub/ flange/drum has been bolted together. Are there spokes with smaller heads that permit this to be done? I know there are spacers available that would provide part of the answer, but I’m assuming the spacers were intended to keep the drum from making contact with the spoke heads. A spacer thick enough to allow the heads of my stainless spokes to slip between the drum and flange, would likely cause other issues?
I know there are other threads etc, but what is the current situation?
thanks

 

[stu spalding]

Are there spokes with smaller heads that permit this to be done?

I got round this by filing a small flat on each side of the spoke head. I've heard that this is frowned on by the "experts" but it has never caused me any problems. Cheers, Stu.

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

In the past I have bought spokes from Central Wheel in Birmingham UK which there was no way they would fit after the hub / flange/ drum was assembled and also a flat needed to be ground on the head on some spokes to stop other spokes catching them.
I also have had to use a spacer to ensure the spoke clears the back of the drum and I think this is more down to the radius and position of the bend near the spoke head rather than the diameter of the head.

I have also used spokes from Devon Rim Company and those had a slightly smaller diameter spoke head but still a little flat was needed on some to make clearance with the other spokes crossing by, but the difference with these is the bend appears to be closer to the head and a smaller bend radius than the Central wheel spokes so the Devon spokes could be fitted after the hub had been assembled and also no spacers between the spoke flange and drum were required. So its not just the spoke head diameter to look at, but the position of the bend as well.

If you ever look at an original factory spoke, the head was smaller and the bend tighter than whats available today, but that may be down to the modern spokes being stainless and the originals plated steel.

Simon

 

[oexing]

With stainless you could hammer the bends a bit tighter with a piece of alu. Stainless is not brittle so no harm done. But not my problem, did not want to keep the extra flanges, 5 bolts drama , felt seals in old hubs. So the complete wheel is homemade , apart from rims and spokes , 200 mm four leading shoes from BMW. Just I have to design brake plates now - oh dear . . . .

Vic

P.S. All spokes fitted now and rims polished.

 

[Cyborg]

vic… I surprised you didn’t offset your crankpin by 130 degrees.
just kidding….
Nice work.

 

[vibrac]

When I had our last set of wheels built for the racer (and we had to do it twice thanks to the scrutineers debarcle*)
we had them built by willis wheels in Epping he unlike a lot of shops bends his own spokes and I seem to recall he used two different bends at least. He also ships world wise

* after first race (and winning ) "I am sorry you have just built 18" wheels (according to the regulations) but you will have to have 19" wheels like the rest (manx) of us"

 

[oexing]

Well , yes, a 130 degrees crank would have made ignition and valve timing a lot less complicated. But I could not find the space for that crank in the old engine case. And then, the sound of the engine would have been like a BMW or any universal British parallel twin . . . .

Vic

 

[Magnetoman]

To add to Cyborg's post, I'm 99% sure the rear wheel on my BS is as it came from the factory, and I'm in the process of disassembling it to refurbish the components. As the next photograph shows, half the spokes came out, but the other half do not have sufficient clearance between the flange and brake hub for the heads.

Measuring the heads of a half-dozen of the spokes. most were in the range 0.279"–0.283", with out-of-roundness 0.001"~0.004". However, one head was significantly smaller at 0.268"–0.272. The reason why I can't extract them from the hub is seen from the following:

Where the '0' on the gauge measures to be a gap of 0.216" between the flange and hub. I measured one other location on the opposite side of the same side of the hub and it was larger, but still only 0.246". This means the heads of the spokes are ~0.020"–0.040" too fat to be able to extract them. Or, for the factory to have inserted them if the brake hubs had been attached when the wheel was laced.

 

[Cyborg]

There are two different types of nuts there and slightly different bolt lengths?…but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything other than the bin had a selection. Yours have the red locking whatever it is.
Just for the record, I did email Buchanan and asked if they could supply the stainless spokes with a smaller heads and explained why I was asking. I’ll let you know what their response is.

 

[A Nut]

Post war Vincents used a 4 crossover pattern but with the size of the spoke heads you often end up with the spoke pulling around its neighbour resulting in a noticeable bend in the spoke. Some A wheels have been built with a 3 crossover pattern which gets over this problem. Before anyone says that this is a no-no a wheelbuilder in Bristol said that a lot of other makes use a 3 crossover pattern. I have built many Vincent wheels using this spoke arrangement without any problem. In fact the only time that I have a problem with loose spokes was when someone built a front wheel for me with a 4 crossover pattern. I spoke at length to Devon Rim and they say no problem with it. Personally I would prefer this method instead of filling the spoke heads.