What is the best approach for restoring a Vincent?

[Magnetoman]

I would suggest that you reconsider your plan to replate the original Cadmium plated fasteners... I rode it every day and within a year or two the plating had blackened to a scruffy state. ... If you are intending to ride the bike (and there is little point in spending the time on it otherwise) I’d recommend using unpolished stainless wherever standard fasteners are needed.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to ride motorcycles every day, but I do have more than one to use whenever I have the opportunity. Also, my part of the country gets less rain in a year than you get in one day in England, so problems with rust and oxidation aren't the same. As a result, the Cd plating on a bike I restored 12 years ago looks nearly new.

I realize opinions on how to restore a Vincent can be contentious. Powder paint, Mikuni carburetors, electric starters, etc. all can be perfectly appropriate for some Vincents, and I take no issue with anyone who chooses such modifications. But, since I have modern motorcycles when I want the 2012 riding experience, this Vincent will be for the 1950 riding experience.

 

[riptragle1953]

Burnish the threads on s/s hardware with a soft thin wire rotary brush in a grinder before assembly .... when stainless to stainless picks up a burr in the thread.... it seizes so tight you have to cut it off. I did not like Cad plate at all.

 

[clevtrev]

Magnetoman says.....
I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. Are you saying that when brand new (e.g. c1950) Vincent used bearings that had poor tolerances, or that today many people restoring Vincent engines are using bearings whose specifications are poor?

It`s like this, the bearings chosen for the mains, are selected to be a shrink fit in the case, and a light press fit on the shaft. Which means that if you do not use these figures, the bearing you put in will not be running at its defined fit. So in effect that means you have fitted a new bearing, that is running loose, and that goes for using loctite as well. If you do use loctite with the cases warm, you might find that you cannot get the inner to assemble when cold.

 

[Magnetoman]

It`s like this, the bearings chosen for the mains, are selected to be a shrink fit in the case, ...

Thanks very much for the clarification. This is actually what I thought was the case, but the wording of Mr. Tragle's post made me wonder if he was making a point about the quality of bearings available today, rather than the class of fit. It's difficult today to find precision bearings in inch sizes that were used for certain applications, such as the headstocks of lathes made some years ago, which was why I asked for clarification.

 

[A-BCD]

The first thing you require on the build is the power unit. Everything else is "hung" around it. If you start with the wheels , by the time you are ready to fit them they will have been in storage and will not look fresh anymore. The power unit, if stored caefully will show less age than the "chrome bits" or the painted parts.

I don't see why the wheels should not look fresh and have to be in storage - I'm always amazed at these rebuilds that stretch over several years. I started with a dismantled and incomplete A twin that had been in boxes for over 40 years with almost everything clapped out and rusty, and it took me 8 months to get it up and running and on the road, including learning how the thing went together and fabricating special bits and painting everything. OK, it took a while longer to sort some of the oil leaks, but I've managed to enjoy 2500 miles whilst doing that !! If I hadn't had to work for a living as well I might have completed it in 6 months !! Probably I'm not such a perfectionist, I'm not knocking those who are, but if you are doing most things yourself, surely 12 months should be plenty of time ??

 

[Magnetoman]

- I'm always amazed at these rebuilds that stretch over several years...

In that case, be prepared to be amazed -- I started this rebuild 21 years ago. OK, things came up in the meantime (mostly good things) that, ahem, delayed me slightly on this particular restoration, but now I'm turning my attention back to it.

but if you are doing most things yourself, surely 12 months should be plenty of time ??

As long as nothing comes up, good or bad, to cause me to put it back on 'hold' again, I hope you're right.

 

[peterg]

Howdy sir,

I get numerous inquiries at my site in the sig below regarding resto/refurb but this one is a fascinating contrast in that you have experience and clear grasp of this machine a system/whole. Though having access to machinery but with minimal skill to utilize it I have purposely sought out low mileage – though aesthetically compromised – unabused machines so as to avoid a need for the machining skills that would require. Obviously not the case here as your skills would indicate.

I’ll preface this by saying I had never sat on a Vincent, had no friends nearby with one, nor sought guidance (pre-Internet forum) with anyone other than a casual question or two to John Healey. I reduced the Red Rap completely to bits and with the exception of chrome, heads/bottom end rebuild and some cad plating did it all in my garage from seat to paint/striping, engine build wheels, etc. with only Richardson’s, KTB and the part list. It was a fascinating journey and the sheer logic made it totally rewarding unlike other resto’s I've endured. Though daunting for the sheer number of parts, try 65 or so requiring paint and a 4 x 8 foot bench to accommodate only a portion of the cad laid out, it was never overwhelming. Though a modular approach (engine, chassis/forks) is logical I would not let the back drop of a mountain of parts be a driver in that equation to require multiple revisits to the same subject.

There’s something to be said for getting immersed in one area, building the ultimate familiarity with the subject, tracking and then completing that task whether simultaneously with another or in isolation. Paint is one but the other is fasteners/plating for which Vin’s have more that any machine I’ve encountered as this, only a portion of it, indicates. I’d do it all in one seamless step and be done with it.

The best military grade cad plating facility in the U.S. – Bilmark - is near you in Dallas and fortunately owned by an m/c enthusiast. He prices by the batch (about $100) and de-embrittles to boot, very reasonable.

If you are space challenged like me and a temporary paint booth is an imposition. My solution was to get that messy step entirely out of the way and then hang all the completed pieces from the rafters to be plucked down later at my convenience.

At any rate, will be fun/educational to watch a more professional approach to the same challenge unfold here as I can only assume you’d grace us with some pix along the way(?).

 

[Magnetoman]

...it took me 8 months to get it up and running and on the road ... If I hadn't had to work for a living as well I might have completed it in 6 months...

I started this rebuild 21 years ago... delayed me slightly on this particular restoration...

I might add that it's not like I did nothing on this bike in all those years. Immediately after buying it I inventoried all the parts that were missing, tracked them down, and crossed them off the list. Other than items that should be readily available if/when I find I need them (like bearings), and perishables (tires and battery), there shouldn't be any delays waiting unobtainable components to turn up.

I've never kept track of how long it has taken me to rebuild a bike myself, but my notes show that I asked three people known for rebuilding Vincents how many hours a restoration of a Vincent twin would take. Their answers were: 235, 750, and 1000 hours. I would be interested in any comments on these estimates. A factor of 4 is a pretty wide range.

 

[Monkeypants]

I haven't restored a Vincent to date. I am fortunate in having one Rapide from OZ that was all done up by Terry Prince, and another which is a local bike and was done stem to stern by John Mcdougall. Both of these fellows know their way around a Vincent.

This winter I am planning to assemble a new engine for the special I built last year. I borrowed the OZ Rapide engine for that project, so there has been no rush to assemble the new motor. Good thing to as it has taken over two years to receive the parts so far and I am still expecting a few backorders. I should clarify that a good deal of that wait was to have a custom crank made (Terry Prince) and also to receive two of Terry's 92 MM top end kits. While waiting for Terry's stuff I was also waiting for some items from the Spares Co.

The Spares Co do a great job, but ordering parts for a Vincent is a bit different than ordering for a Norton Commando. There are enough suppliers for the Commando that one is generally able to find the part, order it and recieve it in very short order.
After a ten month wait for special Vincent MK 5 cams from Terry Prince, I received most everything for the timing chest. The only parts Terry did not have were for the Valve lifter assembly. The Spares Co. had some of the lifter parts, but most were on backorder. These were ordered in the late spring and just arrived a few weeks ago. Same situation in the gearbox, the main parts came from Quaife, but the selector mechanism was needed. There are a multitude of tiny parts in that mechanism. Dan Smith & Robert Watson kindly gave me most of them, the rest were ordered from the Club. A number of those were backordered as well and took some months to arrive.
After waiting acouple of months, I did check with one other supplier and they were also out of stock & waiting for these same parts.

So Vibrac's point of having several routes to work on at once is well taken. If one decided that they were going to order a complete Vincent in parts tomorrow, 90 percent of it might show up next week, but I expect there would also be a good long backorder list generated, and it is anyone's guess as to when the final pieces would arrive. From my own experience, at least a year or so, and much longer if you want an oversized or custom engine.

Glen

 

[peterg]

Howdy sir,

Yeah, 235's about right......for just the painted parts, from the first moment gazed upon in large greasey lumps till done (reduce number if no touring fenders involved). But then again I was beholden to a "customer" for which no ugly secrets could be hidden, meself.

Correspondingly, this languid incomplete pile - starting the 1st week Oct/09 with cursory inspection of a still splendid Tragle rebuild needing - still took every justifiable waking moment outside of work to be made into this reliable rider by 2/1/09, and that's using Krylon instead of real paint. That saga can be viewed here.

Will make this distinction with a Vin resto. The difference in time expenditure between bolting together a glossy trailered show queen and building something equally fetching but very rideable and reliable is greater with this machine than any I've encountered, setting up a timing chest and rebuilding girdraulic front ends just two examples. I spent nearly two whole weekend days setting up and valving just the two shocks to my liking on the Red Rap.