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E: Engine Wet Sumping


David Townsend

Website User
VOC Member
I'm disabled with only one leg so riding my bike's is a treat but infrequent.
This lack of use has caused my bike's to "Wet sump". I wondered if you have a solution to this common problem.
Both my bike's have the Comet engine although one of them is a Rapids.
Best Regards,
Dave.
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
You do not have too many choices with this problem, you either drain the crankcases when you want to use the bike next, and every time thereafter, it is not a good idea to try and start the engine and rely on the scavenge pump, or fit an anti wet sump device as supplied by Conway Motors, these devices always make me nervous, but lots of Vincent owners use them, you could simply fit an on/off tap in the oil feed line, but don't forget to turn it on or you will facing a big rebuild bill, finally you could tear down the entire engine and get a new oil pump and sleeve matched and fitted to the crankcases, but a word of warning, I had my engine rebuilt by one of the best, no longer with us, but the business remains, and given about a month my bike wet sumps.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
A shut off tap in the main oil feed line. This must be connected to an electrical switch of some sort which will stop the bike being started with the oil flow turned off. It will depend upon what ignition systems you have as to what type of switch is required. I believe that Conway Motors can supply the tap but whether their system can be connected to the electrical switch I don't know.
 

David Townsend

Website User
VOC Member
You do not have too many choices with this problem, you either drain the crankcases when you want to use the bike next, and every time thereafter, it is not a good idea to try and start the engine and rely on the scavenge pump, or fit an anti wet sump device as supplied by Conway Motors, these devices always make me nervous, but lots of Vincent owners use them, you could simply fit an on/off tap in the oil feed line, but don't forget to turn it on or you will facing a big rebuild bill, finally you could tear down the entire engine and get a new oil pump and sleeve matched and fitted to the crankcases, but a word of warning, I had my engine rebuilt by one of the best, no longer with us, but the business remains, and given about a month my bike wet sumps.
Thank you for your comments. Strangely, I came up with the same solutions. The tap idea was what I had decided was probably the best solution. Aditionaly, I though it might be an idea to attach a cord to the tap and say the clutch or other control to remind you to switch it on. It's interesting that no one has any better ideas so in conclusion a fail safe tap looks like the best idea.
Thank you very much for your input which is very reassuring.
Regards,
Dave
 

Pete Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
When my Series A was sumping I installed a quick drain fitting in place of the drain plug and left it with a hose connected to a catch container when parked. When you want to ride it unclip the hose, tip the oil back in the top and off you go. Plenty on drain kits around but none are 1/4 pipe thread. You need a bit of engineering to get it to fit.
Ebay item HERE
28362
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Lever petrol taps are 1/4 BSP and would fit the sump hole... o_O
Actually on Vincents I just dump the sump but on my KSS which is a real sumper I have a tap and a curly wherrley key string from the tap and that hooks in a small hole on the front brake lever I cant get on the bike without turning the tap on and re-arranging the string to the back of my seat. even the KSS takes a day or so to shift appreciable R to the sump so its not every stop.
 

David Townsend

Website User
VOC Member
I'm surprised that the petrol tap thread is the same as the sump. Because of my disability, I can't personally check it but I'll get someone to check it for me. It seems to me that we all like this kind of solution to the dumping problem. I especially like the string bit.
Thanks for your input
Regards,
Dave
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
On both my "A" & "B" Rapides I have a linked rods between the oil and petrol tap levers so fuel on the oil tap is opened simultaneously. Real reason why I did the postwar "B" is because last February I had to strip my engine in a hurry and change the main bearings as the cage of the inner timing side had disintegrated and partially removed when my magnetic sump plug was removed , using my slide hammer while extracting the oil pump sleeve but hadn't removed my G 50 plate dinged the flanged portion of the sleeve as it's very delicate there with under cutting. so refitting a miss matched pair of pump elements it now wet sumps in a few days so fitted a linked oil tap, it usually lasted two to three months never having drain off. Strip & rebuild 6days quickest I've ever done it but then usually waiting for B/E replacement.


28391
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
ALL BEARINGS WERE TOTALED BUT THE INNER TIMING SIDE DESINTIGRATED
28392

NOW FITTING ORIGINAL BEARINGS (BRONZED CAGED) BUT ARE HARD TO FIND AND MORE EXPENSIVE
28393
 

David Townsend

Website User
VOC Member
On both my "A" & "B" Rapides I have a linked rods between the oil and petrol tap levers so fuel on the oil tap is opened simultaneously. Real reason why I did the postwar "B" is because last February I had to strip my engine in a hurry and change the main bearings as the cage of the inner timing side had disintegrated and partially removed when my magnetic sump plug was removed , using my slide hammer while extracting the oil pump sleeve but hadn't removed my G 50 plate dinged the flanged portion of the sleeve as it's very delicate there with under cutting. so refitting a miss matched pair of pump elements it now wet sumps in a few days so fitted a linked oil tap, it usually lasted two to three months never having drain off. Strip & rebuild 6days quickest I've ever done it but then usually waiting for B/E replacement.


View attachment 28391
What a brilliant idea!
That's the best and simplest solution I've seen.
Well done and well conceived.
Regards,
Dave
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The spring loaded auto valves have destroyed a lot of engines on the Norton site.
Maybe the Conway's unit is better than those made for Nortons.
There are a number of manual tap with ignition cut out switches available. One user noticed that the switch had failed and was not cutting the ignition with the oil turned off!
Luckily he noticed this and corrected it before any damage occurred.
I couldn't trust either of those solutions and have a wetsumper with a new 2 start oil pump in place. In checking around, others had the same issue with new 2 start pumps.
So I came up with this.
The ignition key is the handle for the valve.
When the valve is off, the key can't be removed from it. Turn the valve on and the key comes out, sort of like those shopping carts that demand a quarter to unlock from the stack.
I just have 1 key for regular use, plus a spare taped on in a hidden location, in case I lose the regular key.



 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member

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