Welcome to new forum website member, Kid Eager

[Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club]

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[Kid Eager]

My neighbour owns a 1951 Black Shadow which sat, un-started, in his lounge room for over 20 years. He used to ride around town with his wife in the Tilbrook sidecar, but advancing age and his wife’s death have relegated that to fading memories. Rather than sell it, a week ago he asked me if I’d like to help pull the covers off and get it going. He said he bought it in Adelaide off David Boham, who worked in the Vincent factory and brought it out from England.

Only having drooled over Vincents in museums previously, I leapt at the chance to enjoy working on one and hear all the stories that goes with it. He is keen to get it running promptly with a minimum of fuss, being acutely aware of his health and mortality. Thus we need to balance desire to hear her running with respect for the fine engineering and not wanting to cause lasting damage, for example by starting it with sludge in the lubrication system. I suspect it is a very low mileage machine as the clock reads 420 miles and there is little wear on components examined so far. Playing with this is a dream come true for me, and the owner really comes to life as we tinker together. His hand strength and memory foibles are a frustration for him so I’m doing most of the hands on work. We take frequent breaks and his memories return as we chat.

He is not keen on cleaning the dust and cobwebs off- “nah, just fire her up, give her a squirt down the road they’ll blow off”! Skimming online information about Vincent restorations, I can feel the indignation of purists wanting a full strip down and rebuild. But I respect his desire to hear her running as soon as possible and his choice of that fun compared with money from selling. He dreams of me riding it for him in the Christmas charity motorcycle toy run with the sidecar loaded with presents in a few weeks. The reality is….

I’m the first to admit being out of my depth here. I’m still smarting from miss-timing and cooking the engine of my 1956 BMW R50 when I was a lad. I threw away my timing disc and vowed leave that to experts in future. In recent years I play with Japanese bikes with electronic ignition and have no timing nightmares. We are waiting on a copy of ”Know thy Beast” and I am looking for a reprint of the owners handbook to guide the rehabilitation. Meanwhile, advice from members will be of great assistance. In the reams of information online can you point me to a succinct guide until the Bible arrives?

We are degunking the tank and taps currently (that old petrol gunk stinks). The carbies look remarkably clean and unworn. We’ve agreed to flushing the engine with diesel and have pumped the tyres in order to roll her outside to avoid the smell inside. They seem to be semi-pneumatic ie rock hard without air! The absence of a spark is a mixed blessing- it means we don’t skip other areas before trying to start her; but my youthful timing nightmare has returned to haunt me. I understand the magneto may have lost magnetism, but I’m not looking for problems so until proven otherwise assume all is in working order and in need of cleaning, adjusting and servicing.

Our plan is to get her started, and only then to look at readying the machine for the road.

In short, I’ve never worked on a Vincent; have no manual; and the owner, with good reason, is impatient for us to get her running.

HELP!!!!

 

[Robert Watson]

That would have been David Bowen in Adelaide! I am sure there are some around Adelaide more than willing to help. Unfortunately my schoolmate from Canada who lives in Adelaide is an electronics instrumentation guy, and not a hands on Vincent man!

 

[timetraveller]

Regarding the lack of sparks; try just cleaning the points in the magneto. Yoiu might be lucky and that might be all that is wrong. If you have to take them out to clean them then you cannot loose the timing as they have to go back in the way they came out. By using a very fine piece of wet or dry abrasive paper, folded over, you might be able to clean them without removing them. Just make sure that there is no abrasive material left between the points after doing the job. There is also a thing called the slip ring, under a screw at the other end of the magneto. There is a carbon brush there and there could be oil or mild corrosion there, preventing the earthing of the current in the magneto.

 

[Bill Thomas]

You may be lucky , Stored inside the house, They don't go Rusty,
I have done it for a few years !.
With the Spark plugs out squirt some WD40 down the plug holes,
This can free off the piston rings and valve stems,
As long as the engine is free to turn over ?,
If the engine oil is low in the oil tank ?
You may have wet sumped ?, Sometimes the oil drains down over a Winter,
And over fills the DRY Sump, There is a drain bolt in a big hole in the left side,
Prop stand support plate, Left, When sitting on the bike !!!,
Refill the tank with maybe 30 weight oil to the metal bar inside about 3 inches from the top,
Maybe change petrol feed rubber tubes, Ethanol in petrol can break up the old tubing ?,
Take the rocker caps off and put some oil down there to get to the cams and followers,
Sometimes when a valve is open, The caps start to undo them jam up,
Just turn the engine over a small amount and it will allow that cap to undo,
Same for other caps !!,
Take the brass bigend feed quill out of the Timing case and squirt some oil up the hole
To prime the bigends ?,
Take the plugs out and keep turning the engine over,
Buy some new spark plugs adjust the gaps to 20 thou",
If you get it running , Take the oil filler cap off and Check that the engine oil is returning,
To the tank via a small hole, Just below the filler ,
Good Luck, Bill.

Check the gearbox oil level, via the dipstick , Only want the oil to come to the end of the stick,
Where there is a flat bit,
Also the primary chaincase, Oil can drain via the engine and over fill which will mess the clutch up !!!,
There is an oil level plug, Small bolt !! , About an inch from the bottom of the case,
Take the primary chaincase filler cap off, And look down, The oil only wants to be high enough so the chain dips into it ?.

 

[Kid Eager]

Thanks for your prompt helpful replies, guys.
We put oil in the plug hole with the intention of leaving it for a couple of days, but the next day the boss said he was too impatient to see if it turns over. Eased it over turning the back wheel, then the boss said it’s kickstart time.
Engine oil is low in tank, so will drain crankcase and flush with diesel. Have not got a spanner for the oil filter yet but inspection ports all loose. Need an oil filter too but will carry on with flush regardless until we get that.
I need to replace fuel hoses, will add in-line filters as tap filters disintegrated. Looks like 3 in-line filters owing to the plumbing? I have a vintage brass ear syringe for quill squirting.
Fuel tank now clean, taps work and no fuel leak thus far. I bet the carbies leak though!
Tomorrow I’ll take my reading glasses, magnifying glass, emery paper and metho. Points don’t look corroded but it’s dark and awkward down there.
Thanks again, I’ll ask the boss if I can take photos for you.
Oh, I’m at a remote outpost of the Empire a few thousand km from Adelaide. For all we know there isn’t another Vincent anywhere remotely close.

 

[Bill Thomas]

Not sure I would flush with Diesel !!,
Is the chair off ?, It's much more easy without,
About 5 years ago ,Brother Ron and me got a Twin going, For a Friend,
That had been sitting ,
With the engine on the floor since the 60 s !, With the covers OFF !,
We got the engine on the bench and kept pouring WD40 Then Engine oil ,
On everything we could get to, And kept turning it over till I felt some compression,
And I said to Ron, This will start !.
Ron was told many years ago that it was knackered, But we didn't find that ,
And it ran and rode well after Ron put tyres etc and rebuilt forks and things,
I was shocked to see how well the engine had lasted.
Good Luck, Bill.

 

[Bill Thomas]

To get at the Points as T.T. said ,
If it's an old Magneto , Undo the centre bolt and give it a wiggle,
With the long bolt half way out !!,
The points holder is on a taper with location key built in.

Before you put the points back ,Smear a tiny bit of light grease around the cam,
To stop the fibre heal of the points wearing,
Points gap about 12 thou".

 

[Kid Eager]

Thanks to your advice we got sparks yesterday!
Discovered the treasure trove of hard to remove gunk in upper frame/oil tank. Will leave that be for now.
Might get fuel to the carbies today, listen for rumbling thunder!

 

[Bill Thomas]

If it's not too bad, The sludge is best left alone !,
If it's been inside the house, I would not think it would be bad ?,
There is a filter in the back of the tank,
With a strange shut off valve when you take the small pipe off,
So you can take the tank OFF without draining all the oil,
The pipe has a special bit of tube built in the end of it that pushes a valve UP,
to let the oil come down the pipe, When you screw the pipe in,
If the sludge is bad, We cut a hole in the top of the tank to make sure we clean it right,
There is a shop in UK that sells a special plate with a threaded centre that can be welded
on to the tank,
The sludge at the back of the tank is often hard !, That's why I say leave it alone ?,
Not easy to clean !.
Good Luck, Bill.